What abour ratchets?

[goodtimes]

It's about paying someone's salary at a fair rate, so they can pay into social security, medicare, pay taxes, have a job, and contribute to a free society. Probably like those people here expect to have, and like having. It isn't about what a bargain that slave labor, pirated design tool is, or is it made better or worse.
The $75 is a bargain. Can anyone here make such a thing for $75 of their benefited labor cost, plus materials, plus guarantee no defects for the next 100 years? If the Chinese do it for $2, ship it overseas, and mark it up for profit at several points, than what do you think is sacrificed to sell for that?

I have put a lot more than 80 ft-lbs on my 1/2"Craftsman base model, black lever, raised panel, no good, ratchet and nothing broke. That's just lug nut torque, nothing really so much. I have put long cheater wrenches on them and never have been able to break them. If they did, I would DRIVE to Sears for a free new one.

 

[ajchien]

Regarding the 80 ft lbs. That was apparently on a newer raised panel 3/8 in ratchet. I think they also tested a 1/2 which did much better. FWIW, after I bought myself a raised panel 3/8 flex head long handle, I went and broke loose a few 80 ft lb lug nuts and it did work fine. Perhaps they have some QC issues between ratchets.

Regarding paying a fair rate. Fair rate is so screwed up in our society now. We've got things that re inflating beyond reason, and other things that are deflating like crazy.


Originally Posted By: goodtimes
It's about paying someone's salary at a fair rate, so they can pay into social security, medicare, pay taxes, have a job, and contribute to a free society. Probably like those people here expect to have, and like having. It isn't about what a bargain that slave labor, pirated design tool is, or is it made better or worse.
The $75 is a bargain. Can anyone here make such a thing for $75 of their benefited labor cost, plus materials, plus guarantee no defects for the next 100 years? If the Chinese do it for $2, ship it overseas, and mark it up for profit at several points, than what do you think is sacrificed to sell for that?

I have put a lot more than 80 ft-lbs on my 1/2"Craftsman base model, black lever, raised panel, no good, ratchet and nothing broke. That's just lug nut torque, nothing really so much. I have put long cheater wrenches on them and never have been able to break them. If they did, I would DRIVE to Sears for a free new one.

 

[38sho]

Originally Posted By: scurvy
Originally Posted By: ajchien
the garagejournal.com website reviews ratchets


I got very tired of the 'if it aint Snap-On, it's JUNK' attitude about all tools - especially ratchets - on TGJ and rarely visit there anymore.


maybe cause they are right....

I've used all kinds of tool brands....... I've rarely found something better in a different brand then Snapon for a ratchet, socket, or extension...... wrenches are pretty decent too, but I think any top notch brand high end wrench is decent... like a matco/snap-on flank drive/mac knuckle save

ratchets are smoother and take more torque

extensions break less often and are a tighter fit when new, and last longer used without getting all beat up from impact guns.

sockets are better grabbing, stronger, and smaller/easier to get into tighter spots then the competition......

 

[Cristobal]

I have an S-K ratchet and a Craftman ratchet, both are 1/2 inch drives. I also have a 3/8 and a 1/4 inch Craftsman. I will not say how old these are, but I know the S-K was in use as early as July 1975. They are so good; I never want to part with them. Just so many memories are attached to them.

 

[SLCraig]

I gotta say the Craftsman ratchets I had were pretty bad.
I don't know what to recommend you though that is good, for not something like $75 per ratchet.
I love SK products, but they arent inexpensive either.
(I use Mastercraft Canadian Tire house brand)

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

Originally Posted By: ajchien
Regarding the 80 ft lbs. That was apparently on a newer raised panel 3/8 in ratchet. I think they also tested a 1/2 which did much better. FWIW, after I bought myself a raised panel 3/8 flex head long handle, I went and broke loose a few 80 ft lb lug nuts and it did work fine. Perhaps they have some QC issues between ratchets.


You need to take that Durolast review with an entire box of salt. The guy that did it has an axe to grind with several people that "might" skew his results just a tad.... He changes his opinion of things every month or so and his review also doesn't take into account the longevity of the ratchet. I have good old American made ratchets from the 60's and 70's that are still going strong. Some are on their second or third kit but they are still working well and the kits didn't cost me anything. Like the old saying goes, buy a good tool and cry once when you pay for it and smile every time you use it or buy a cheap tool and smile when you buy it and cry every time you use it.

I also have new Snap-on and Matco 80 and 88 tooth ratchets that, in my opinion, are better than anything else I've ever seen or used. Are they expensive? Yes, but some of my other ratchets are not that expensive compared to the truck brands (I also own some older Mac rats). Those include Williams, Armstrong, SK, Craftsman and Proto. A lot of those can be bought for the same price or less than the "imports". Check around at your local pawn shops if nothing else. I passed on a 1/2" Armstrong yesterday that was marked $9.00 and was in great shape. I might still go back and get it just to have in the "junkyard" box.

I take pride in my tools, where they are made and knowing that I am supporting American workers as much as I can. When I can buy a ratchet for the cost of a meal for my family at Red Lobster and know that it will be handed down to my grandkids, they don't seem so expensive anymore. I also understand that I am in the minority in this country right now but I can live with my choices and sleep at nights.

 

[Seguino]

Broke my first Craftsman tool last week. A 15 year old 3/8 ratchet. Tried to turn it into an impact wrench by hitting the end with a 2lb sledge hammer. Guy at the Sears counter handed me a new one and said "Sorry for the inconvenience"

 

[Herz]

would have had them rebuild it, quality is good but nothing like your 15 year old one.

 

[38sho]

Originally Posted By: GeorgiaHybrid

Like the old saying goes, buy a good tool and cry once when you pay for it and smile every time you use it or buy a cheap tool and smile when you buy it and cry every time you use it.



man thats the smartest thing I read on here all week, nice saying

 

[Trav]

Kind of a large PDF file but an interesting test of a few ratchets.

http://www.sonic.net/~alexz/Ratchet%20shootout.pdf

 

[RnR]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Kind of a large PDF file but an interesting test of a few ratchets.

http://www.sonic.net/~alexz/Ratchet%20shootout.pdf
Thanks for the link... nice intro to some of the common brands too.

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

Trav,

That is the "test" that was noted above. What is missing is ANY modern ratchet from Matco, Snap-on, Williams, SK or Armstrong

The new Snap-on's will pull to well over 500 ft-lbs and do that day in and day out. The average weekend/DIY wrench will never tear one up. I use my 24" long 1/2 drive flex head as a breaker bar and don't worry about it.

If those $19.95 ratchets are still going strong after 4 or 5 years in a pro environment, I might change my opinion of them but so far, that hasn't happened. There have been a bunch that grenaded and caused several busted knuckles/hands/cuts though.

 

[Trav]

Oh okay i see that,i saved this to my PC some time ago.
What surprises me is how well some of the HF ratchets did,and how poorly the Craftsman "k" series ratchets did.
I looked at some old "V" series ratchets and compared them.WOW what a difference,the "K" may be made in U.S.A. but it is poorly finished with little machine work to the rough casting,the "V" looks well machined,thicker in critical areas and much better finished.

The HF Roto-Ball has Chrome Moly etched in the side,this thing is great after a year of daily abuse its still going strong,i toss it in a can of ATF friday night and leave it over the weekend.I cant knock it,it works well for very little money.

I dont know if this has been posted here before,i found this a while ago.Thanks to who ever put this list together.




Craftsman Tool Manufacturers and Date Ranges
« on: August 17, 2009, 01:11:13 PM »

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Welcome to the Craftsman Tool Manufacturer and Date Range Summary Table,

This table containes the Series Codes (manufacturers ID), the Manufacturers Names (if known), and the Date Ranges (years, if known) that the series codes apply to.

This table includes only mechanics hand tools, general hand tools, and some machinest tools specifically identified with series codes.

This table excludes power tools, wood working tools, yard and garden tools, and any hand tools not specifically identified with series codes.

This table represents the combined efforts of numerous members of the Garage Journal, the Garage Hangout, and the Craftsman Club websites. It is considered a work in progress and is subject to change as new information becomes available.

The sources of information used to compile this table include, but are not limited to the following:
1) Members personal tool collections, observations, and purchase recollections,
2) Sears and Craftsman Tool catalolgs,
3) Alloy Artifacts Website (a most excellent resource),
4) Patent filings, Trade Mark filings, and FTC filings,
5) Assorted News Service articles, and
6) Various Tool Manufacturers websites and catalogs.


Last Updated: 12/06/09



Early Craftsman Series (generally pre-1947, with some exceptions):

BC = unknown U.S. manufacturer, ca. ? - ?

BE = New Britain, ca. 1931 - 1947

BM = S-K, ca. 1939 - 1951

BT = unknown U.S. manufacturer, ca. 1936 - 1938

Cxx = Probably New Britain or Hinsdale, ca. 1930 - 1936

CI = unknown U.S manu., ca. 1930 - 1945

CF or C-F = Herbrand, ca. 1934 - 1939

Craftsman Vanadium = unknown U.S. Manu, ca. 1931 - 1941

C8 = JP Danielson, ca. 1930 -1936

F-circle = Miller Falls, ca. 1949 - 1964

G-circle = possibly Lectrolite, ca. 1949 - 1964

H-circle = New Britain, ca. 1931 - 1947

K-circle = SK, ca. 1939 - 1951 perhaps later

N-square = unknown U.S. manu., ca ? - ?

P-circle = Wilde, ca. 1945 - 1960

S-circle = Kastar, ca. 1960 - 2008, perhaps earlier

V-circle = unknown U.S. manu., ca. ? - 1985

U-circle = Plomb, ca. 1944 - 1948

Z-circle = Mayhew, ca. 1957 - 1969


Modern Craftsman Series (generally 1947 and later, with some exceptions):

BF = probably Daido, possibly Hozan, Japanese made, ca 1969 - 1987

C = unknown U.S. manu., ca. 1991

C = Stanley Works, Taiwanese made, ca. ? - ?
(note--this is a Canadian Craftsman series code)

CG = unknown U.S. manu., ca. 2001 - 2005

D = Kington, Chinese made, ca. 1992 - 2008

DJ = Mitutoyo, Japanese made, ca. 1968 perhaps earlier & later

E/EE = National Hand Tools/later Stanley Works-NHT division, some USA made, most Taiwanese made, ca. 1982 - 1991

EEE/EEC/EE7 = Stanley Works, Taiwanese made, ca. 1988 - 2009
(note--these are Canadian Craftsman series codes)

F = Danaher/possibly K-D division, ca. ? - 2008

G = Easco, ca. 1980 - 1989 perhaps as early as 1979 when Easco acquired the Gastonia plant

G continued = Danaher, ca. 1990 - 2009

G1 = Danaher, ca. 2000

G2 = Danaher, ca. ? - 2008

G2D = Danaher, ca. 2008 - 2009

GD = Danaher, ca. 2008 - 2009

GK = Danaher/Kingsley Tools Division, ca. 2003 - 2008

GK-A = Danaher/Kingsley Tools Division, ca. 1999 - 2003

GK-F = Danaher/Kinsley Tools Division, ca. 2007 - 2008

GK-G = Danaher/Kingsley Tools Division, ca. 2007 - 2008

GK-X = Danaher/Kinsley Tools Division, ca. ? - 2008

H = Danaher/Holo-Krome, ca. 1994 - 2009

HZ = Danaher/Holo-Krome, ca. ? - 2008

HZ O = Danaher/Holo-Krome, ca. 2009-2009

HZ OO = Danaher/Holo-Krome, ca. 2008 - 2009

I-circle = Parker Mfg Co, ca. 1965 - 1986

JW = J.H. Williams & Co, ca. 1954 - 1972

K = SK division of Facom, ca. 1985 - 2004, could still be NOS

K1W = Danaher, ca. 2007

K3V = Danaher, ca. ? - 2008

K3X = Danaher, ca. 2007 -2008

K9W = Danaher, ca. 2008 - 2009

KR = Danaher, ca. 2005 - 2008

KU = Danaher, ca. ? - 2008

KV = Danaher, ca. ? - 2008

KW = Danaher, ca. 2002 - 2008, probably earlier

KX = Danaher, ca. 2002 - 2008, probably earlier

L1X = Danaher, ca. 2008 - ?

L SI = Simmonds International, ca. 2008 - 2009

M6W = Dahaher, ca. 2007 - 2008

N = Pratt Read, ca. 2007 - 2009

OA = Unknown U.S. manu., ca. ? - ?

P = Wilde, ca. 2008 - 2009, perhaps earlier

Q = Pratt Read, ca. 2002 - 2006

R = Pratt Read, ca. 2002 - 2006

PR = Pratt Read, ca. 2002 - 2009

Q PR = Pratt Read, ca. ? - ?

S PR = Pratt Read, ca. 2007 - 2008

T PR = Pratt Read, ca. 2007 - 2008

U PR1-3 = Pratt Read, ca. 2008

V PR = Pratt Read, ca. 2007 - 2008

W PR = Pratt Read, ca 2007 - 2009

X PR = Pratt Reed, ca. 2009 - 2009

ST = Stanley Works, likely Taiwanese made, ca. 2007 - 2009
(note- this is a Canadian Craftsman series code)

T1V = Danaher, ca. 2006 - 2007

T2W = Danaher, ca. 2008

T3W = Danaher, ca. 2008

T5V = Danaher, ca. 2008

T5W = Danaher, ca. 2008

T5X = Danaher, ca. 2008

V = Moore Drop Forge, ca. 1938 - 1967

V (continued) = Easco, ca. 1968 - 1986 perhaps as late as 1991 as NOS

VF = Danaher, ca. likely early 1990's

VG = Danaher, ca. 1994 - 1995

VH = Danaher, ca. 1994 - 1997

VJ = Danaher, ca. 1994 - 2008

VK = Danaher, ca. 1996 - ?

VL = Danaher, ca. ? - ?

VM = Danaher, ca. ? - ?

VN = Danaher, ca. 1999 - 2001

VP = Danaher, ca. ? - ?

VQ = Danaher, ca. 2001 - 2004

VR = Danaher, ca. 2002

VS = Danaher, ca. 1995 - 2003

VT = Danaher, ca. 2002 - 2006

VU = Danaher, ca. 2005

VV = Easco, ca. 1978 - 1989

VV continued = Danaher, ca. 1990 - 2009

VW = Danaher, ca. 2002 - 2008

VVY = Danaher, ca. 2009 - ?

V^(2nd V inverted) = Danaher, Armstrong Division, ca. 1992 - 2008

VVL = Danaher, ca. 2000 - ?

VVN = Danaher, ca. 2005

VVS = Danaher, ca. 2003

VVT = Danaher, ca. 2004 - 2005

VVV = Danaher, ca. 2008

VVW = Danaher, ca. 2008

VVX = Danaher, ca. 2002 - 2008, possibly earlier

W = SK Hand tools, post-Facom , ca. 2005 - 2008

WF = Western Forge, ca. 1965 - 2008

WF ll = Western Forge, ca. 1969

WF D = Western Forge, ca. ?

WF J = Western Forge, ca. 1991 - ?

WF K = Western Forge, ca. ?

WF L = Western Forge, ca. ? - 2009

WF R = Western Forge, ca. ?

WF U = Western Forge, ca. 2008

WF V = Western Forge, ca. 2008 - 2009

WF W = Western Forge, ca. 2002 - 2009

WF X = Western Forge, ca. 2008 - 2009

WF Y = Western Forge, ca. 2009 - 2009

A WF = Western Forge, ca. ?

B WF = Western Forge, ca. ?

C WF = Western Forge, ca. ?

D WF = Western Forge, ca. 1993 - 2000

E WF = Western Forge, ca. ?

F WF = Western Forge, ca. 2003

G WF = Western Forge, ca. ?

H WF = Western Forge, ca. ?

J WF = Western Forge, ca. 1995

K WF = Western Forge, ca. 1995

L WF = Western Forge, ca. ?

M WF = Western Forge, ca. ?

N WF = Western Forge, ca. ?

O WF = Western Forge, ca. ?

P WF = Western Forge, ca. ?

Q WF = Western Forge, ca. 1990 - 1995

S WF = Western Forge, ca. 2009

T WF = Western Forge, ca. 2002 - 2009

U WF = Western Forge, ca. ?

V WF = Western Forge, ca. 2002 - 2009

W WF = Western Forge, ca. 2002 - 2009

X WF = Western Forge, ca. 1965 - 2009

Y WF = Western Forge, ca. 2009 - 2009

+ WF = Western Forge, ca. 1965 - ?

* WF = Western Forge, ca. 1965 - ?

> WF = Western Forge, ca. ?

|| WF = Western Forge, ca. ?

∆ WF = Western Forge, ca. 1966 - ?

□ WF = Western Forge, ca. 1965 - ?

7 WF = Western Forge, ca. ?

X = SK Hand tools, post-Facom , ca. 2008 - 2009

Z = Mayhew, ca. 1957 - 2008

3 = Kastar, ca. 1991

4 = Kastar, ca. 1992

[ = Kastar, ca. 2002 - 2009 possibly earlier

.(Dot) = SK, ca. 2008 - 2009

 

[goodtimes]

I never have "reversed" a ratchet, and that isn't breaking it, or is it? Not even sure what that is or how it works. Maybe I am just more mechanically oriented, to know when an object is too light for what it is doing, by feel, and go get a bigger size tool, or start with a correctly sized tool to begin with. That is why they have the different sizes I think. I saw nothing of much relevance in the ratchets test, mostly personal opinions based on looks of the gears etc, except that the ratchets reversed, never knew they did that by themselves, and the pictures of the insides.

As for a USA made ratchet, and who made it, the list is getting shorter year by year. Not USA assembled, USA made entirely. Snap on Armstrong (Danaher owned, I know), who else? Thanks to Sear's Craftsman sales, and the military's purchasing power, USA made, good or bad made, I don't care, is still around.

 

[Vikas]

"reversed" a ratchet:- You *will* know it when it happens to you. What happens is that while loosening a bolt, the ratchet suddenly changes the direction of the lever on its own and you end up accidentally tightening the bolt than loosening as you intended it.

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

Snap-on, Matco (chrome handle only the comfort handle is foreign), Armstrong, Williams, Wright (any tool branded Wright is made in the USA), Craftsman (well, some of them), SK (supposed to start production again soon), Proto and Cornwell ratchets are still made in the USA. I would have said Mac but I don't trust them anymore.

I'm sure that I have missed some with theis quick list but a lot of the old brands are now foreign owned and made and we lose more every year.

 

[bigmike]

I have a 1/2" VM and 1/4" and 3/8" VL Craftsman ratchets that have held up well. I also have an older V series 1/4" that has been abused quite a bit, but working well. I did need to clean the 3/8" due to it slipping, but after cleaning it and leaving it in a bath of ATF overnight, it's working like new.

I don't use a cheater bar on them. I have breaker bars I'll destroy for things like that. I do wail on them sometimes with a rubber hammer, if necessary.

I'm not a ratchet expert by any means. I'm not a professional mechanic, so I think the choice for me was more towards having a lifetime warranty and availability.

 

[QuadDriver]

Originally Posted By: Stewart Fan
The screwdriver thread really helped me out.

Now I need to know about ratchets. I looked at some Snap-ons,but can't justify $75+ for a single ratchet.

I've read more than once that the new Craftsmans are junk. For a guy that doesn't use them to make a living,and wants something nicer than the Taskforce and Powerbilt he has now,are they really that bad?

Sears had a nice 3 pc set of polished pear head ratchets for $60 IIRC.


I like the craftsman pear heads swith lever over the round heads with 'mercedes', and the only one I ever broke was the dang 3/4" drive on a tractor! but it was free....

I have a husky. I have had some of these over 30 years.....

 

[heavychevy96]

That list is very cool. I also have a VL Craftsman 3/8 that has served me well for many years. I will also use a breaker bar if something needs to be wailed on though. I do prefer the round head ratchets however, always have.

 

[Stewart Fan]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: Stewart Fan
I looked at some Snap-ons,but can't justify $75+ for a single ratchet.


I'm almost certain that you have something in your household that I could say the same thing about.


WTH is that supposed to mean?