I am unsure who the previous owner was- I bought it from a used car stealership. just assuming it musta been a young female.
what 25,000 mile oil changes can do to a '03 Toyota
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That's pretty much an indication that you ought to change out the tranmission fluid and coolant to be on the safe side. People don't maintain either of those if they're not keeping the oil changed.
The engine, if it isn't showing any other problems, can be solved easily enough.
One of the sponsors sells a product to clean out just what you've got there and all reports are that it works great.
http://www.auto-rx.com/
A non-solvent flush is:
http://lubegard.com/automotive/engine_flush.html
The viscosity of this stuff puts it in the range of gas turbine oils, so it's probably not suitable for a long-term cleaning along the lines of the Auto-Rx product.
.
yep- i'll be swapping tranny and coolant fluids sometime in the next week, already have 6 bottles of arx on the way to clear up this mess... will use some on my isuzu rodeo also.
as long as you are satisfied with the results, it is your choice. My point is that the cost of analysis and "premium" oil products isn't justified financially *to most people who do financial cost-benfit studies professionally*.quote:
Originally posted by ekpolk:
So Ken, please forgive the slight vulgarity, but do you run to the bathroom to relieve yourself every 15 minutes, whether you feel the urge or not? My bladder usually takes me for hours, unless I've been consuming an exess of German liquids (of the amber type, not green...). Between 3-4 UOA I've done myself, and those I've seen here at BITOG, I've satisfied myself that 3-5k is gross overkill, pure and simple. And it's not as if over-frequent oil changes aren't without risk. Years ago (early 90s) I found that I had actually fatigued the threads on my oil drain opening in the Honda I owned at the time. And lampooning the purchasing habits of other BITOG members proves nothing. In a week or so, I'll post the UOA on the GC that was in my wife's Sequoia for 13 months and about 12k miles. Judging from the continuing outstanding, A+ performance of the engine, and the very blonde appearance of the replacement fill of GC, no problem. So how would you call this one???
Again, and certainly no offense, but your statements most assuredly place you in the enthusiast category. Cost justification isn't an issue for you and that's certainly fine and I will not criticize it. It's the attempts to base it on cost-justification that really irritate me.
I can't econmically justify my $2000 camera....but i bought it anyway. It's ok, it's a hobby.
Part of my justification of doing 5k (not 3, btw) changes in my cars are: a 97 sludge-prone v6 Camry, so doing my own w/dino is probably the safest route with the least cost. at $15/30 minutes, it's not rocket science. Sure I could go 2x on synthetic, but it costs (typically) more than 2x. The 30 minutes I spend is always used to not only change the oil, but also check other itmes so I can't say that I would actually save that precious time.
In the 02 Highlander, it's what is recommended for severe service (5k), which is basically what it sees: the wife drives it maybe 40 intown stop and go miles every other day punctuated by a 70+ mph romp for 3 miles on the freeway.
Is the 3k oil change NECESSARY for most people? Certainly not. Is it justified? Considering the cost of forgetting and going to 9-10-11k on simple dino. probably.
And yes, I do go to the bathroom before I need to quite often. It's a 1.5 hour trip home every evening.....
kenw ,
Again, not starting a war here. I also have a sludge engine (1998 Lexus ES300) as I noted in previous posts. The kicker is Lexus sent me a letter stating, “All we ask is that you show a reasonable effort to regularly maintain your vehicle.”
Based on that and other docs you do not need to do a oil change sooner on these IMZ’s. You do not even need to do there 7,500 miles as outlined in the manual. Over 3.3 million engines are in these years and only like 3,000 people/engine had issues (not very much here).
Also noted is that Lexus states in another doc I have is that there is no design problem….go figure.
But here is my $29.XX oil change with over 12K miles. Not saying Amsoil is the best in the world here but you would not and could not get me to use dino for a free oil change.
Car: Lexus ES300 1998
Oil used: Amsoil 5w30 (ASL)
Oil Filter: Amsoil SDF-57
Miles on car: 75,007
Miles on oil: 12,290
OXD: 24
Nox: 21
Fuel: Soot: 0
TBN:3.33
Vis @ 100 13.56
Fe: 11
Cr: 0
Ni: 10
Al: 3
Pb: 10
Cu: 11
Sn: 1
Ag: 0
Ti: 0
Si: 17
B: 27
Na: 12
Mo: 1
P: 1161
Zn: 1175
Ca: 2643
Barium: 0
Mg: 797
Also I only hope you have changed the pvc often, and cleaned the EGR, intake, throttle body and iacv since these engine are prone to sludging these areas up...quick!
Again, not starting a war here. I also have a sludge engine (1998 Lexus ES300) as I noted in previous posts. The kicker is Lexus sent me a letter stating, “All we ask is that you show a reasonable effort to regularly maintain your vehicle.”
Based on that and other docs you do not need to do a oil change sooner on these IMZ’s. You do not even need to do there 7,500 miles as outlined in the manual. Over 3.3 million engines are in these years and only like 3,000 people/engine had issues (not very much here).
Also noted is that Lexus states in another doc I have is that there is no design problem….go figure.
But here is my $29.XX oil change with over 12K miles. Not saying Amsoil is the best in the world here but you would not and could not get me to use dino for a free oil change.
Car: Lexus ES300 1998
Oil used: Amsoil 5w30 (ASL)
Oil Filter: Amsoil SDF-57
Miles on car: 75,007
Miles on oil: 12,290
OXD: 24
Nox: 21
Fuel: Soot: 0
TBN:3.33
Vis @ 100 13.56
Fe: 11
Cr: 0
Ni: 10
Al: 3
Pb: 10
Cu: 11
Sn: 1
Ag: 0
Ti: 0
Si: 17
B: 27
Na: 12
Mo: 1
P: 1161
Zn: 1175
Ca: 2643
Barium: 0
Mg: 797
Also I only hope you have changed the pvc often, and cleaned the EGR, intake, throttle body and iacv since these engine are prone to sludging these areas up...quick!
no war intended, trust me!
I will assume your data is good, and yes i routinely change/clean/inspect those items and without any analysis at all.
But I have to wonder (again, no wars here, just inquiring): on all those other parts, do you analyze them and also calculate a CI for them too? If not, why not? Is it any different? If so, why?
Timing belts are a simple example. The cost of pre-failure replacement is heavily outweighed by the damage done at failure. And they cost a LOT of money to replace! However, do you independently analyze the belt life in your car and calculate a more realistic life expectancy? Probably not. But we all know (or have anecdotal data at least) that timing belts routinely go well over stated change intervals. But you replace it at x interval anyway, and spend several hundred $$ to do it.
Why is oil, especially at $13 a change, any different?
(I got the letter, too, but I'm WAY past the extended period! the lawyers made them say "there is no design problem". It's like any company that gets in trouble, they pay big $$ to settle and yet "admit no wrongdoing". It is a typical legal maneuver to ward off future lawsuits. After all, if you ADMIT to a design problem, why have a trial?? just pay up, thank you!)
thanx for the data, i will have to assume it looks good. Since I bought mine used @15k, I tend to be a bit more cautious. Perhaps overly so, but until I can afford to replace the car, it's personal value is much much higher than bluebook scrap value!
Again, i sleep better.
take care.
I will assume your data is good, and yes i routinely change/clean/inspect those items and without any analysis at all.
But I have to wonder (again, no wars here, just inquiring): on all those other parts, do you analyze them and also calculate a CI for them too? If not, why not? Is it any different? If so, why?
Timing belts are a simple example. The cost of pre-failure replacement is heavily outweighed by the damage done at failure. And they cost a LOT of money to replace! However, do you independently analyze the belt life in your car and calculate a more realistic life expectancy? Probably not. But we all know (or have anecdotal data at least) that timing belts routinely go well over stated change intervals. But you replace it at x interval anyway, and spend several hundred $$ to do it.
Why is oil, especially at $13 a change, any different?
(I got the letter, too, but I'm WAY past the extended period! the lawyers made them say "there is no design problem". It's like any company that gets in trouble, they pay big $$ to settle and yet "admit no wrongdoing". It is a typical legal maneuver to ward off future lawsuits. After all, if you ADMIT to a design problem, why have a trial?? just pay up, thank you!)
thanx for the data, i will have to assume it looks good. Since I bought mine used @15k, I tend to be a bit more cautious. Perhaps overly so, but until I can afford to replace the car, it's personal value is much much higher than bluebook scrap value!
Again, i sleep better.
take care.
To obtain the warranty service.
On the other hand, if you're planning on running a car 200,000 or more miles the warranty is not at issue.
I myself routinely replace parts before they fail, including timing belts, water pumps, and accessory belts.
I have a good idea of what the mean life to failure is of most components, the cost of getting towed, and what getting a long trip or vacation torpedoed by a failure feels like.
On my own cars I moved from 3,500 miles or six months between oil changes to 5,000 miles or six months between oil changes about five years ago. I have used Mobil 1 for many many years.
None of my cars has ever had internal engine work done, none have had excessive oil consumption, and none has ever failed an emissions test.
Oil is cheaper than engines, and scheduled changes are easier than extended unscheduled shop visits.
.
Ken-
If you check the items I listed you will know that change and inspect is well, zero since you WILL have to clean them since it is a joke how bad they get. On any Lexus or Toyota forum they will tell you the same.
I do not calculate anything for them since they get done (aka cleaned, not inspected) etc at every oil change since again this engines are bad with the soot, sludge etc in them. Take off the intake and you will wonder how the car even starts. There really is no inspect here with these items. They will be bad. Buy a $3.00 can of throttle body cleaner and save hundreds in dealer repairs.
This is my throttle body & iacv at its first cleaning: Shirt was pure white.
http://home.comcast.net/~94gsxr1100/lexus/tb_clean.jpg
The oil is different since the dino oils in these engines tends to coke up pretty bad. I would be doing the samething with dino if I could not sleep but I send the little extra dollars since I have seen what dino oil does to these engines.
Timing belts in these cars is not even any issue since below 1999 they are non-interference engines here. Now the 1999 and above they had (VVT-i technology) which is bad if the belt brakes; hence damage. Below 1999, all that happens is the engines stops; no engine damage.
Timing belts are around $300 to $400 installed here. The belt (OEM) is only like $40. I had mine done, the water pump, pulleys, tensioner, thermostat, cam and cranks seal and aux belts for $700. Not too bad for every 90K miles. Even then you can skip the water pump and save the $175….
To close, mine was also pre-owned (CPO) from Lexus. So far, the engine is happy with Amsoil. If it was not, I would be posting on it like mad! J
[ August 24, 2005, 06:39 PM: Message edited by: mburnickas ]
If you check the items I listed you will know that change and inspect is well, zero since you WILL have to clean them since it is a joke how bad they get. On any Lexus or Toyota forum they will tell you the same.
I do not calculate anything for them since they get done (aka cleaned, not inspected) etc at every oil change since again this engines are bad with the soot, sludge etc in them. Take off the intake and you will wonder how the car even starts. There really is no inspect here with these items. They will be bad. Buy a $3.00 can of throttle body cleaner and save hundreds in dealer repairs.
This is my throttle body & iacv at its first cleaning: Shirt was pure white.
http://home.comcast.net/~94gsxr1100/lexus/tb_clean.jpg
The oil is different since the dino oils in these engines tends to coke up pretty bad. I would be doing the samething with dino if I could not sleep but I send the little extra dollars since I have seen what dino oil does to these engines.
Timing belts in these cars is not even any issue since below 1999 they are non-interference engines here. Now the 1999 and above they had (VVT-i technology) which is bad if the belt brakes; hence damage. Below 1999, all that happens is the engines stops; no engine damage.
Timing belts are around $300 to $400 installed here. The belt (OEM) is only like $40. I had mine done, the water pump, pulleys, tensioner, thermostat, cam and cranks seal and aux belts for $700. Not too bad for every 90K miles. Even then you can skip the water pump and save the $175….
To close, mine was also pre-owned (CPO) from Lexus. So far, the engine is happy with Amsoil. If it was not, I would be posting on it like mad! J
[ August 24, 2005, 06:39 PM: Message edited by: mburnickas ]
Mickey_M
I agree but most cars timing belts are like 80 to 100K miles and you do not inspect them. And the water pumps will last twice as long; The aux belts last up to 70 to 90K miles. All this on Japan (AKA Lexus) cars with OEM. I do not know about Domestic and after market.
Emissions is not 100% related to oil. It could be a week 02 sensor, MAF sensor weak, or a bad EGR….
I agree oil is cheaper then engines but on the flip side I am not wasting my money, time etc when I do not need to. Some people might think I am nuts, but I am using my time and money to the fullest. I do not want to be worrying about oil, time interval etc.
I agree but most cars timing belts are like 80 to 100K miles and you do not inspect them. And the water pumps will last twice as long; The aux belts last up to 70 to 90K miles. All this on Japan (AKA Lexus) cars with OEM. I do not know about Domestic and after market.
Emissions is not 100% related to oil. It could be a week 02 sensor, MAF sensor weak, or a bad EGR….
I agree oil is cheaper then engines but on the flip side I am not wasting my money, time etc when I do not need to. Some people might think I am nuts, but I am using my time and money to the fullest. I do not want to be worrying about oil, time interval etc.
Saw an LS1 just like this at a local shop recently. Mobil 1 with a 25000 mile OCI and properly functioning PCV system.
What people continually fail to acknowledge is the amount of contaminants that get into an oil. Although synthetics may be more stable from a chemical standpoint, they will still suffer from moisture, acids and metallic wear particles.
Here is my take on the subject. The 440 in my Pontiac cost me around $6000 to build. There is no way I am going to experiment with extended drain intervals...Robert
What people continually fail to acknowledge is the amount of contaminants that get into an oil. Although synthetics may be more stable from a chemical standpoint, they will still suffer from moisture, acids and metallic wear particles.
Here is my take on the subject. The 440 in my Pontiac cost me around $6000 to build. There is no way I am going to experiment with extended drain intervals...Robert
Robert,
I agree 100% and synthetic are not the "cure all" for extended drains. That is why I advised people doing extended or not to do a simple oil test.
If you are not doing a simple oil tests to see how you can benefit from longer drains, you are playing with fire; or at least monitor the oils condition; again, playing with fire since you are “shooting in the dark”. If anyone has had issue doing extended drains and knocking any oil, first thing I say is, “did you tests it and what where the numbers”. Most times (over 80%) do not test. It is there fault, not the oils.
I agree 100% and synthetic are not the "cure all" for extended drains. That is why I advised people doing extended or not to do a simple oil test.
If you are not doing a simple oil tests to see how you can benefit from longer drains, you are playing with fire; or at least monitor the oils condition; again, playing with fire since you are “shooting in the dark”. If anyone has had issue doing extended drains and knocking any oil, first thing I say is, “did you tests it and what where the numbers”. Most times (over 80%) do not test. It is there fault, not the oils.
To follow up on my earlier post in this thread, while amicably crossing swords with kenw, I have now got the UOA lab results on our Sequoia back. Thirteen (yes, 13 months) and 10,200 miles, with Lube Control used as prescribed. Ken, this will probably drive you nuts, but I think the cost of the labs is justified. I'm not saving millions or anything like that, but I will save some money on all the needless oil changes I won't be doing in the 12-plus months I can SAFELY use 7 qts of oil in this car. My point is that the answer to absurd disasters like the one depicted in this thread is not to rush back to the perceived security of the old 3/3 plan as if it's the only way to ensure a long-lived engine. Click here to see this how well this oil held up even after 13 months.
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