Wear higher in Winter in Cold Climates?

[Hapuna Beach]

Just curious what your thoughts are. Under similar miles & oil change intervals, would an engine undergo mor wear in Miami or Duluth, MN during the winter?
Wonder what analysis would show!

 

[Johnny]

I believe the winters up north are much harder on an engine. Especially in Duluth.

 

[Dipstick]

Good question. Hard to say as I ponder on it. I used to live up in Alaska and I would run 5w-30, but couple that with an engine block heater(s), battery plate-type heater I usually did'nt encounter a problem...until it got to -62F and my block heater broke(!@#$%^&*). I would still hazard a guess and say even with the help of internal heaters and low viscosity oil you'd still encounter *additional* wear. Kind of OT, but the biggest problem I'd encounter while dealing with Alaskas winters is that anything below -40F would square off the tires until you drove about 2 miles to warm em up! Hehe, those were the good ol days.

 

[Patman]

I'm curious about this myself, and asked a similar question a few weeks ago. I will find out
this winter, as I'll be doing oil analysis on every oil change in my car for the next few years.
I'll be using the same oil in the fall as I am in the winter, and will continue using it next year
as well so I'll have comparisons for all seasons.

 

[Spector]

Well I would also think driving habits are a key. Colder starts with thicker oil (some say most wear is at startup) and if coupled with short trips, more condensation as engine never heats up. I would vote that yes, in general engines do not last as long given duplicate driving conditions

 

[MolaKule]

I would say it depends on what kind of coating the oil gives the internal's right before shutdown.

If the additive package left a organometallic film or if the base oil has a good polar ester, then I would say wear should be minimal.

 

[Patman]

This is another reason why an oil with moly in it makes a great winter oil, since that moly coating will protect the engine in extreme cold when the oil might not flow fast enough.

I also think that a simpler engine design such as my small block Chevy, would show less wear in cold weather than a complex engine design with double overhead cams.

 

[widman]

We don't have "traditional" winters here (middle of winter here, 28-30 degree nights, 90 degree days), But in the mines and altiplano it is winter year around, and analysis almost always shows more copper and iron. My guess is that the asside from low flow, engines don't heat up enough in a lot of the circumstances, so it depends a lot on your driving. I remember Driving across the US during the blizzard of 1966, where I had to block the radiator with cardboard and the engine still couldn't get up to temp all night. Not good for an engine.

 

[MolaKule]

"-cold oil doesn't lubricate as well as warm oil"

Consider this: as an oil heats the viscosity drops which equals a thinner lubrication film between parts. On the other side, if the oil is colder it is more viscous, thus the lubricating film should be thicker, assuming the oil is "clinging" to the internals after shutdown.

Most oil's today have some type of polar additive that makes oil cling to parts much better than the older formulations.

I think too much is being made of cold weather starts. If any wear does occur, it occurs when the driver attempts to drive a cold engine like a "batoutah...''' instead of letting the engine warm a bit. And here, it is mostly a matter of fuel economy since a warmer oil has less pumping losses than do cold oils.

 

[Patman]

MoleKule, what do you recommend for driving patterns in the winter? This is what I do. No matter what the outside temp, if I start the car when the engine is cold, I only idle it for maybe 10-15 seconds at the most, then drive away very gently, not going above 2000rpm for the first few minutes. If it's really cold out, say 0F or lower, I might idle the car for 30 seconds before pulling away, but that's about it. I never idle the car for 2-3 minutes or more like a lot of people I know (I know some that idle their cars for 20min every morning all winter long!!)

Do these habits sound good? Or should I actually idle the car for a minute before pulling away if it's 0F or less? (which is rare here)

 

[Spector]

If I may, as important as your idle procedure is, it is also important (to me anyway) that the car be driven at least 10 miles or more each time you start it to burn off condensation etc

 

[jjbula]

quote:

---

Originally posted by MolaKule:
assuming the oil is "clinging" to the internals after shutdown.

Most oil's today have some type of polar additive that makes oil cling to parts much better than the older formulations.

---

MolaKule -- Is there any data out there on how long and how much oil clings after shutdown?. Is there any oil left after sitting for a day, week, month?

And if that isn't a hard enough question--
Are certain viscosities, PAO or types/brands of oils better at clinging?

[ August 13, 2002, 03:00 PM: Message edited by: jjbula ]

 

[MolaKule]

Patman,

15-20 second idle sounds OK to me. I like to let the engine warm up to 1/3 normal heat reading before I rev to over 2,000 rpm's.

If any of you guys have oil presuure gages, what range do you see from cold to warm to hot and with what viscosity of oil?

In my '86 Burb, 10W30 synth, I see 60+ psi when cold, then drops back to 35-45 psi when warm, then settles out to about 25-30 psi when hot. This is at about 2,500 rpm. I should also mention I have an oil pump that is not considered a racing pump, but is a higher volume pump than stock. Some might call it a street pump.

 

[jjbula]

quote:

---

Originally posted by MolaKule:
In my '86 Burb, 10W30 synth, I see 60+ psi when cold, then drops back to 35-45 psi when warm, then settles out to about 25-30 psi when hot. This is at about 2,500 rpm.

---

This is not relevant to what you're talking about but it peaked my curiousity. In the oil filter section we discussed bypass valve settings. Would your oil psi put a filter, or internal valve, into bypass?

 

[Terry]

jjbula, definitely .

 

[Patman]

MolaKule, I'm running 10w30 and when I start my engine it has an idle oil pressure of about
50psi at first. When fully warmed up, it's idle oil pressure is about 18-20psi.

On the highway when the oil is cold it's close to 60psi at 2000rpm. But once warmed up it
settles in at about 35-40psi at 2000rpm. This is consistent with the other 95 LT1 I used to
own, and it's similar to the 98 Formula I had (although that car had a higher idle oil pressure
because it was a 6 speed car, and they have a 300rpm higher idle speed, and typically
show 30psi idle oil pressure when warmed up)

 

[MolaKule]

"This is not relevant to what you're talking about but it peaked my curiousity. In the oil filter section we discussed bypass valve settings. Would your oil psi put a filter, or internal valve, into bypass? "

As Terry said, most definately, especially when cold or at the higher rpm's.

I should also mention that I have a remote bypass filter as well, so whether the FF is operating or not, the BPF is operating.

 

[sprintman]

Don't idle at all. At initial start injected cars go to full rich and all that raw fuel washes cylinder walls - not good. Somebody did an indepth study on this a fair while ago and the reccomendation was :- start engine, drive slowly almost immediately to put load on the engine for quicker warm-up. Any idling was bad they said. Seems very logical really. Was worse in carbed vehicles with manual choke from what I remember.

 

[SteveD2]

More wear in cold winters:
-cold oil doesn't lubricate as well as warm oil
-contaminants build in the oil rapidly
-the engine isn't fully and evenly warmed so due to uneven expansion things fit differently and wear together differently.

To really prepare an engine for cold, you need heat on the water jacket and heat on circulating oil. We aren't going to have oil circulating pumps on small engines in our cars and trucks--not worth the money; we'll take the wear--but any medium to large engine will have it.

Ken