Ways to save gas.

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Those mileage figures are what the manufacturer posts. My '01 Windstar with the 3.8 V6 just barely gets 15mpg in the city and maybe 21mpg at highway speeds (65-70mph). I blame the horrible fuel economy on the mandated 10% ethanol gas we have here in MN. My '99 Taurus 24v can hardly squeeze 24mpg on the highway.

quote:
Originally posted by jtantare:

quote:
Originally posted by 1sttruck:
"There is absolutely no reason to drive a 3 or 4 ton SUV get the kids to scholl and buy groceries."

I'll beat this horse everytime I see it.... I dropped my daughter off at school this morning in a 3/4 ton pickup that probably weighs 7000 lbs empty. Should I have purchased another car to deliver her to school ? We bought the truck as we were taking both cars on trips, and while each Taurus currently gets 26 to 28 mpg on the highway the combined mileage is obviously half that; 13 to 14 mpg. In town each car only gets about 19 to about 22 mpg as we live on a hill, and mileage suffers a lot depending on how many trips we make.

We get 19 to 20 mpg in the truck on the highway and 17 to 18 mpg in town, as the diesel doesn't seem to notice hills or payload that much. A minivan didn't have the space or payload that we needed, and wouldn't be as versatile anyway. I could probably get low 20s in the flatlands at 60 to 65 mph. It seems dumb to buy yet another car for short trips when the mileage won't be that much better in town, and per the EPA ratings that I've seen I get as good or better mileage in town as a lot of sporty type cars. So, if you're going complain about mileage you'll need to include Audis, BMWs, Jags, etc., in your complaints.
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First of all im talking about SUVs not heavy duty diesel pickups. Diesel pickups are generally much more expensive than your typical Yukon or Expedition. There is not employee discount on diesel pickups. Secondly, you probaly have a need for that 7000lb vehicle and it gets much better fuel economy than a large gas powered SUV. My Yukon driving co worker is happy to see 10mpg in her daily commute. And you can't include "Audis, BMWs, Jags, etc" becuse even a V8 model still gets well over 20mpg.
BMW 7 series: 17/25
AUDI A8: 18/24
Jaguar XJ: 18/28
Mercedes S class: 17/26
There is no excuse for driving a truck based SUV.
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So far the best advice I've seen in regards to saving gas is keeping the tires properly inflated.

I'm suprised no one mentioned changing out the PCV or running Sea Foam through the vaccum line. Also what about making sure you keep your fuel needle at the above or halfway mark as moisture and sludge builds up from the extra space in the fuel tank.

It wouldn't hurt to add a treatment of some kind like SeaFoam, Marvel Mystery Oil, fuel injector cleaner, or FP60 to the fuel tank.

No one mentioned upgrading the spark plugs as well. Make sure all fluids are up to the appropriate levels, and be sure to warm up the car well on cold start in the morning.

I believe some of these methods just described can improve gas mileage.
 
I drive a 5k# SUV as a DD, and I must say, it gets better gas mileage then some of the sporty cars listed above for in town.

I average 18-19 mpg town/22-26 highway.

The thing that shocked me, is I average much more consistent/better gas mileage then my sister's Dodge Caravan which only gets 17 mpg in town and 19-21 highway. And a friend at work has a Ford Caravan, that only gets 16mpg in town.

I get fed up with these "don't drive SUV'S" comments because they're labeled as gas hogs, and yet, most of those caravan's are using just as much - if not more.

Granted I can only seat 5 people comfortably, rather then my sister's 7 passanger, but I can carry more stuff and tow a heavier load when need be.
 
quote:
Originally posted by 1sttruck:

I'll beat this horse everytime I see it.... I dropped my daughter off at school this morning in a 3/4 ton pickup that probably weighs 7000 lbs empty. Should I have purchased another car to deliver her to school ? We bought the truck as we were taking both cars on trips, and while each Taurus currently gets 26 to 28 mpg on the highway the combined mileage is obviously half that; 13 to 14 mpg. In town each car only gets about 19 to about 22 mpg as we live on a hill, and mileage suffers a lot depending on how many trips we make.

We get 19 to 20 mpg in the truck on the highway and 17 to 18 mpg in town, as the diesel doesn't seem to notice hills or payload that much. A minivan didn't have the space or payload that we needed, and wouldn't be as versatile anyway. I could probably get low 20s in the flatlands at 60 to 65 mph. It seems dumb to buy yet another car for short trips when the mileage won't be that much better in town, and per the EPA ratings that I've seen I get as good or better mileage in town as a lot of sporty type cars. So, if you're going complain about mileage you'll need to include Audis, BMWs, Jags, etc., in your complaints.
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I know you defend your position everytime you see a thread like this... Everyone has their needs, and while many people in reality don't NEED to use a large v8 SUV for themselves and one or two kids, its clear that in YOUR position, it is excellent... Many folks dont want a loss leader truck, some are still against diesel, and some would like to be able to get 28-30 mpg when the ability arises, which a largeish sedan like the taurus can do - most people can go out with their family most times without needing two cars. But your situation is your situation, and it is what it is...

I just have one question: maybe since you mention payload, it is a consideration, but why didnt you think more about a minivan? Our toyota is running like new with 196k on it, never needed anything repair wise, carries a LOT of stuff, quite often, and returns 24 mpg on the highway, and about 21 around town...

A minivan qould have close to the carrying capacity of the two taurii, with better fuel economy then the truck. Spacewise, a minivan has better passenger space than a 4 door dodge (though the pickup might be wider), and unless you have a cap, the rear is virtually worthless if the weather isnt optimal, as things will bake or freeze or get soaked... and if you drive too fast it isnt all that great either...

I have a chevy pickup - granted its a small one, its an S10 ZR2. But, I know for certain that as far as real everyday cargo capacity, even with my toneau cover on the bed, the ability to haul everyday stuff like groceries relatively sucks compared to even my small car...

Just curious for friendly interest sake... yours is an interesting situation, as obviously you need to haul a LOT of people and stuff, all the time.

JMH
 
"A minivan qould have close to the carrying capacity of the two taurii, with better fuel economy then the truck. Spacewise, a minivan has better passenger space than a 4 door dodge (though the pickup might be wider), and unless you have a cap, the rear is virtually worthless if the weather isnt optimal, as things will bake or freeze or get soaked... and if you drive too fast it isnt all that great either..."

I not only have a canopy, I have two bucket seats in the bed. Looking at minivans and SUVs it seemed that with the three row seating being used there wasn't much cargo room left, so I decided to 'make my own' vehicle. We've had 7 in the truck with camping gear for all; two coolers, three tents, two containers of gear, two containers of food, 7 packs and a couple of extra bags, 7 bags, 7 sleeping pads, etc., which pretty much filled the truck.

Space is very good in the truck, and it's nice having the canopy as we also bring a large dog (Russian wolfhound) on a regualr basis. The bed works better for firewood, trash, bags of concrete, tree limbs from pruning, etc., than most minivans. Payload does come into play with enough people and stuff, where my 3/4 ton has about a 2300 lb payload. 4x4 is almost essential for a bigger vehicle, living on a hill with the snow and ice that we get. I've watched my neighbor spend 20 minutes trying to get up his driveway in his minivan, and my son has watched some local yokels spend two hours trying to get up the hill in a 2wd pickup. In smaller vehicles 2wd works fine.

I also spent quite a bit less than what the typical Honda minivan seems to go for.
 
quote:
kcryan:

Other than drive like an old lady what do you guys suggest
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On long trips draft semis.

About 12 inches from his rear ought to do it.

Be sure to keep your feet near the brake pedal and make sure his brake lights work before beginning the draft. No point in checking out his load from the inside.


.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Mickey_M:

quote:
kcryan:

Other than drive like an old lady what do you guys suggest
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On long trips draft semis.

About 12 inches from his rear ought to do it.

Be sure to keep your feet near the brake pedal and make sure his brake lights work before beginning the draft. No point in checking out his load from the inside.


.
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HAHA! You would have to be really desperare with a death wish.
 
"First of all im talking about SUVs not heavy duty diesel pickups. Diesel pickups are generally much more expensive than your typical Yukon or Expedition. There is not employee discount on diesel pickups."

My 2003 was not only a loss leader, I also ended up using a Dodge discount that was available at the time. I ended up paying a lot less than what I've heard others paying for their full size SUVs.

"Secondly, you probaly have a need for that 7000lb vehicle and it gets much better fuel economy than a large gas powered SUV. My Yukon driving co worker is happy to see 10mpg in her daily commute."

Yes, this is about what I hear others getting. A coworker gets 2 mpg when towing their large boat with a large block gas engine pickup.

"And you can't include "Audis, BMWs, Jags, etc" becuse even a V8 model still gets well over 20mpg.
BMW 7 series: 17/25
AUDI A8: 18/24
Jaguar XJ: 18/28
Mercedes S class: 17/26"

I did say in town, and your data supports my statement. Evidently vehicles over 8000 lbs GVWR don't get mileage estimates, mine is 9000 lbs, but I do fall at the 50% point in the in town mileage on the EPA list.

"There is no excuse for driving a truck based SUV."

Again, it's best to look at mileage instead of vehicle type.
 
quote:
Originally posted by 1sttruck:

I not only have a canopy, I have two bucket seats in the bed. Looking at minivans and SUVs it seemed that with the three row seating being used there wasn't much cargo room left, so I decided to 'make my own' vehicle. We've had 7 in the truck with camping gear for all; two coolers, three tents, two containers of gear, two containers of food, 7 packs and a couple of extra bags, 7 bags, 7 sleeping pads, etc., which pretty much filled the truck.

Space is very good in the truck, and it's nice having the canopy as we also bring a large dog (Russian wolfhound) on a regualr basis. The bed works better for firewood, trash, bags of concrete, tree limbs from pruning, etc., than most minivans. Payload does come into play with enough people and stuff, where my 3/4 ton has about a 2300 lb payload. 4x4 is almost essential for a bigger vehicle, living on a hill with the snow and ice that we get. I've watched my neighbor spend 20 minutes trying to get up his driveway in his minivan, and my son has watched some local yokels spend two hours trying to get up the hill in a 2wd pickup. In smaller vehicles 2wd works fine.

I also spent quite a bit less than what the typical Honda minivan seems to go for.
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Very interesting!!!!!

Is it actually legal to add seats into the bed of a pickup truck? Do they have 3-point belts? Where do you go for such a conversion?

What about safety? Do the seats face forward or backwards? How can the people in there escape in an emergency? How is it back there without climate control in the middle of hot summer days or cold winter evenings? Does it get loud back there?

With seats installed, given that you have an 8' bed, how much cargo capacity do you have? How is access to the seats in the bed when there is cargo in there?

I also have to ask how is the rear in-cab seat legroom? I'm 6 ft 4in, and never fit veryu well into the crew cab trucks, let alone the dodge, which is more like a modified extended cab...

Once again, I'm very impressed with your setup. Ive always liked the cummins diesel dodge trucks... andin reality my GF may need to buy one soon, because she wants to start a horse barn / hippotherapy (physical therapy of people using horses) clinic, and of course a good size truck is a must...

Thanks,

JMH
 
drop the spare. its probably a mini anyway. carry a patch kit and AAA card.

if equipped, replace fan clutch/fan with electric fan.

dont drive during peak times (like rush hour).

automagic transmission? accelerate with rpms atleast at the stall point on your t/c.
 
quote:
Originally posted by bdleonard:

quote:
Originally posted by LarryL:
One way to save gas is to buy a small car. Then you need to get all the pickup and suv drivers to promise not to run you over. Some drivers treat owning a two+ ton vehicle as a a right-of-passage. They pull out in front of you, tail-gate you and put you into situations where you can end up getting seriously killed or faitally injured. Picking a car for mileage can be dangerous. Example? A few months ago, on the freeway a lady driving an Excursion hit a Civic just ahead of me, never hit the brakes until after punting the stop[ped Civic. The Ford was damaged a bit, the Civic was distroyed. I stopped to help the Civic driver until help arrived. The Civic driver is in for a painful recovery in the hospital and the Excursion driver was upset because her phone call was interuppted and she could not find her cell phone. The hit was hard enough to set off the Excursion's air bag and bend up the front end a bit, but the Civic was smashed into a ball that had to be cut open to extract the driver. Good gas mileage can be dangerous.
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In my opinion, you've gotten it exactly backwards. Its not the small economy car that's dangerous. The dangerous vehice is 2+ ton behemoth. If the moron in the Excursion had been driving a reasonably sized vehice everybody in the accident would likely have walked away OK.

Your argument is like saying that a bicycle is more dangerous then an Abrams tank because because the bicycle is going to take more damage in an accident. For me the real test of "dangerous" is what will do more damage when it hits me.
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You got that right.
cheers.gif

Its amazing how many get that bassakwards.
 
quote:
drop the spare. its probably a mini anyway. carry a patch kit and AAA card.
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Wait till you call AAA in the middle of I5 and after 2 hours they say they tried but can't find you, and it started raining.

Don't ask me how did I find that out.
 
"...carry a patch kit and AAA card"

Coworkers use to kid me about all of the junk that I carry in each car, especially the tools, as 'all one needs is a cell phone and AAA card'. They stopped kidding and actually started carrying some stuff when a couple of hundred people were stranded on I5 in southern Oregon a couple of years ago by a snow storm. It took a couple of days to get some people out. Each year there are news stories around here of people getting stranded, some for days.

I do carry too much stuff but I feel responsible for the wife and kids, and want them to be able to get by for a few days if needed if they're stranded somewhere.
 
"Is it actually legal to add seats into the bed of a pickup truck? Do they have 3-point belts? Where do you go for such a conversion?"

Adding seats is one thing, sealing and dealing with CO is another. If you're considering doing this you'll need to start with a battery powered CO detector, use it all the time, and work on sealing the tailgate, bed, and canopy while figuring out how to flow fresh air thru. I keep one canopy window opposite the exhaust and the window at the front of the canopy open. Opening a window to the cab would be better but you need a big gasket between the canopy and cab to do that. I'm surprised more dogs don't get wasted in pickups with canopies as there is a lot of CO drawn in unless you work to prevent it. You HAVE to use a CO detector.

I found some federal NHTSA standards on sea tbelts, seats and such, and used those as guidelines. It's not uncommon to add seats to cmmercial vehicles. I have the seats backward facing, and since they are I can get by with a lap belt per the standards. There are standards for fasteners and washers and such, I used 7/16in grade 8 bolts, and mounting hardware has to be detailed with edge breaks and radiusing so that it doesn't act like a can opener on the body sheet metal. I used some bucket seats from a Toyota (?) Echo, and while they appeared to be originally retained with five 1/4in or so pins I have about two feet of welds onto two large pieces of 1/4in steel hot rolled plate for each seat, with a couple of more pieces of 1/4in plate used as really big 'washers' under the bed.


"What about safety? Do the seats face forward or backwards? How can the people in there escape in an emergency? How is it back there without climate control in the middle of hot summer days or cold winter evenings? Does it get loud back there?"

I need to add some bolts to the clamps used on the canopy, to act like large shear pins, but I don't think that a roll bar is needed as people sit with their back next to the rear of the cab. Seats are backwards facing. People can get out about as well as being in the cab; unbuckle, open the hatch, climb out. It can get hot or cold, but the silver color of the truck and the bit of foam insulation in the canopy make a big difference on hot days. Sometimes the kids bundle up a lot in the winter, and I always keep a fleece comforter and wool blanket in the truck anyway. Still, we plan on making changes so that we can open a window to the cab for hot and cold air.

"With seats installed, given that you have an 8' bed, how much cargo capacity do you have? How is access to the seats in the bed when there is cargo in there?"

I have a short bed, about 6 1/2 feet I guess. I don't recall the capacity. With a full bed one needs to climb over stuff, but we usually keep an aisle open. Obviously you don't want people back there if you're carrying something like open boxes of axes :^)

"I also have to ask how is the rear in-cab seat legroom? I'm 6 ft 4in, and never fit veryu well into the crew cab trucks, let alone the dodge, which is more like a modified extended cab..."

Yeah, but I was puzzled on why they found the truck so much comfortable on trips as the leg room wasn't much more than either car. Looking closer the truck is wider, and the seats sit higher so less leg room is needed. There is generous leg room up front, and Dodge is evidently coming out with a 'megcab' this next year.

"Once again, I'm very impressed with your setup. Ive always liked the cummins diesel dodge trucks... andin reality my GF may need to buy one soon, because she wants to start a horse barn / hippotherapy (physical therapy of people using horses) clinic, and of course a good size truck is a must..."

I haven't had as much fun driving since my motorcycling days. I expect that this will be the last large vehicle that we ever buy, as it should last until they eventually take away my license :^)
 
well i dont carry the minispare in the car. i have a patch kit and a very small vehicle-powered airpump (its slow but it works). 95% of my trouble is screws/nails/animal bones. i dont see how carrying my minispare would help in a snow storm? extra weight? during the winter i drive the truck and carry chains (gas is cheaper then--i can afford the weight).

i also carry 1 qt atf and 1 qt motor oil. a small toolkit (2 lbs or so) with assorted hose clamps, tape. i carry 50/50 antifreeze in the truck but that's pretty heavy at ~8 lbs so i dont carry that in the car.

aaa is when something serious happens. like the alt or fuel pump dies. i havent been crazy enough to start carrying a spare alt like some people i know. not sure how i would drop the tank on the side of the road to replace the fuel pump.
 
quote:
Originally posted by chas3:
well i dont carry the minispare in the car. i have a patch kit and a very small vehicle-powered airpump (its slow but it works). 95% of my trouble is screws/nails/animal bones.
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Isn't that cutting off your nose to spite your face? Why not carry the compact spare the car came with? Unless you're using the spare tire well for an ice chest. I certainly wouldn't tempt fate that way. Am I missing something?
 
The rear brakes don't need much cooling, since they don't work hard, so you can cover the ventilation holes in the hubcaps and reduce windage losses.
 
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