Water in transmission oil

[zeng]

Originally Posted By: Whitewolf
Originally Posted By: zeng
You should be fine .........
If need be ,besides other appropriate suggestions above, just visually monitor fluid's colour .......... from time to time.

Did you fail to understand my comments? You are misleading this person. Colour is not a good indicator to judge the quantity of water in fluid.



You got it wrong ............

Colours of used ATF lubricants :-

a )When grayish ...... is NOT a good indicator of condemnation of the oil;On the other hand,

b )when the transmission oil colour is still red pinkish and not murky , it IS perfect indication of continuing serviceability as it is originally intended to be !

 

[Whitewolf]

I'm afraid that it is you that is wrong. ATF can appear quite normal even when containing twice the commonly recommended limit of water. Might I suggest that you study the subject more thoroughly.

 

[zeng]

Originally Posted By: Whitewolf
I'm afraid that it is you that is wrong. ATF can appear quite normal even when containing twice the commonly recommended limit of water. Might I suggest that you study the subject more thoroughly.



Residual water in transmission oils, if any, is a non-issue in OP's case.

Let OP be the judge ...................

 

[Whitewolf]

Originally Posted By: zeng
Originally Posted By: Whitewolf
I'm afraid that it is you that is wrong. ATF can appear quite normal even when containing twice the commonly recommended limit of water. Might I suggest that you study the subject more thoroughly.



Residual water in transmission oils, if any, is a non-issue in OP's case.

Let OP be the judge ...................


I think that is best as long as they don't follow your advice.
Goodbye.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: zeng
Originally Posted By: Whitewolf
Originally Posted By: zeng
You should be fine .........
If need be ,besides other appropriate suggestions above, just visually monitor fluid's colour .......... from time to time.

Did you fail to understand my comments? You are misleading this person. Colour is not a good indicator to judge the quantity of water in fluid.


You got it wrong ............

Colours of used ATF lubricants :-

a )When grayish ...... is NOT a good indicator of condemnation of the oil;On the other hand,

b )when the transmission oil colour is still red pinkish and not murky , it IS perfect indication of continuing serviceability as it is originally intended to be !



It is you zeng that has it wrong and your misleading and inaccurate statements are not helping the OP's tranny.

What is the forecasted serviceablity of a transmission fluid when it has water in it and it is still red-to-pink?

The OP needs to do do at least one pan drain and refill, regardless of the position of the dipstick.

And leaving the system open to the outside environment by bumping up the dipstick only allows contaminants to enter.

 

[zeng]

Originally Posted By: Nissan101
A few drops as the heavy rainfall that got on the funnel and entered the transmission. But it was like for only 20 seconds before i closed the bonnet



Originally Posted By: Nissan101
nope what i have been doing was the everyday since this happen when i arrive at work and when i arrive home i would take out the dip stick to allow any moisture to be removed.
And i do 150km a trip, mostly highway though



Check with your friends in 'field service' ..... or off-road equipments serviceman ........in high rainfalls locality ............ who had actually 'seen' and 'experience' this phenomenon umpteen (not tens , but hundreds and thousands of ) times ...........

Non-field-service crew who hadn't personally seen and experience this so-called 'water contamination' ...... would not be adequate to assess this 'practical' situations ..........

I repeat ........ water contamination in transmission oils,if any, IS a non-issue in OP's case.

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Geography/Average-precipitation-in-depth/Mm-per-year

Note:Water contamination of new unused lubricants in off-road mines ,due to improper lubricants storage facilities, is prevalent in high rainfall country of mine, btw.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: zeng


...Non-field-service crew who hadn't personally seen and experience this so-called 'water contamination' ...... would not be adequate to assess this 'practical' situations ..........

I repeat ........ water contamination in transmission oils,if any, IS a non-issue in OP's case.


And I repeat, water is a contaminate and doesn't make a good lubricant.



Originally Posted By: zeng

Note:Water contamination of new unused lubricants in off-road mines ,due to improper lubricants storage facilities, is prevalent in high rainfall country of mine, btw.


How can you get any significant water contamination if the containers are sealed?

What is an off-road mine? Most mines I have visited are off the main drag but....?

 

[zeng]

Originally Posted By: zeng

A few drops as the heavy rainfall that got on the funnel and entered the transmission. But it was like for only 20 seconds before i closed the bonnet



Originally Posted By: Nissan101
nope what i have been doing was the everyday since this happen when i arrive at work and when i arrive home i would take out the dip stick to allow any moisture to be removed.
And i do 150km a trip, mostly highway though

 

[philipp10]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: zeng


...Non-field-service crew who hadn't personally seen and experience this so-called 'water contamination' ...... would not be adequate to assess this 'practical' situations ..........

I repeat ........ water contamination in transmission oils,if any, IS a non-issue in OP's case.


And I repeat, water is a contaminate and doesn't make a good lubricant.



Originally Posted By: zeng

Note:Water contamination of new unused lubricants in off-road mines ,due to improper lubricants storage facilities, is prevalent in high rainfall country of mine, btw.


How can you get any significant water contamination if the containers are sealed?

What is an off-road mine? Most mines I have visited are off the main drag but....?


we are talking maybe, maybe a teaspoon of water. Why wouldn't it just evap off with the dip stick out....and contaminents....come on, whats really going to get in there. Wouldn't the fluid look milky if it had enough water in it?

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: philipp10


we are talking maybe, mybe a teaspoon of water. Why wouldn't it just evap off with the dip stick out....and contaminents....come on, whats really going to get in there. Wouldn't the fluid look milky if it had enough water in it?


It doesn't matter. A contaminate is a contaminate.

Anytime you open the system to the environment you expose that system to dirt, dust, further moisture, etc.

And no, you can get quite a bit of water in the thousands of PPM before it turns milky. And by that time the damage has been done.

Quote:
The OP needs to do do at least one pan drain and refill, regardless of the position of the dipstick.

And leaving the system open to the outside environment by bumping up the dipstick only allows contaminants to enter.

 

[Whitewolf]

Mola, you are wasting your time mate.
I think at some point 'dipstick' did come into the conversation!
Now we know its location.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: Nissan101
Nice thanks ...that exactly what i will continue doing because atf is kinda expensive and im still in university.
Yes school and work sucks

I understand your situation as I was once a student and now teach students.

But consider a pan drain and refill or your school bill just might go up.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: Whitewolf
Mola, you are wasting your time mate.
I think at some point 'dipstick' did come into the conversation!
Now we know its location.


I think so.

Sometimes you try to help OP's and then those ignorant dipsticks and meatheads come out of the woodwork to spray inaccurate info (like a skunk), or just to blindly argue salient points.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIEBgotTrcY

 

[Whitewolf]

Very good.

I hope the OP is reading all of this.

 

[zeng]

Originally Posted By: Nissan101
A few drops as the heavy rainfall that got on the funnel and entered the transmission. But it was like for only 20 seconds before i closed the bonnet
................................................................................
I ran it for two days and the oil is still cherry red not milky. Is it ok to use it like this?
..........................................................................
nope what i have been doing was the everyday since this happen when i arrive at work and when i arrive home i would take out the dip stick to allow any moisture to be removed.
And i do 150km a trip, mostly highway though

Originally Posted By: philipp10
we are talking maybe, maybe a teaspoon of water.......Wouldn't the fluid look milky if it had enough water in it?



a )OP has mentioned at post#1 .........A few drops .. for only 20 seconds..before i closed the bonnet ..............Philipp10 , you are absolutely spot on suggesting :it may be, may be ..a teaspoon of water.

b )Now at 1 teaspoon of water(with my rudimentary explanation), it ONLY contributes to about 600 ppm of water in the oil sample .. which is well below conservative safe limit of say , Blackstone Labs (with attached sample report), of 1000 ppm (0.1%)..... meaning the 600 ppm of water are 'dissolved water in lubricant oils'..... rendering its continuing serviceability as originally intended.Dissolved water does not render condemnation of oils.

c )At water content (substantially) higher than 1000 ppm , the oil colour will appear cloudy .... until such time the ppm increase of dissolved water (being part of oil) has reached a state of saturation within oils ..... beyond which 'free water' is forming within (and separate from ) the oil sample ... The separation of 'free water' from the oil sample renders heavy cloudy/milky colour one sees in an oil sample.

d )I would be less generous than you ...... in estimating the OP's water contamination, if any. My estimate would be in the range of 100-200 ppm ............. which is a NON-issue in condemning the oils ..... I repeat!

e )In post #1, OP has separately mentioned :I ran it for two days and the oil is still cherry red not milky ........... a strong indication of total absence of 'free water' in the oils.


Originally Posted By: philipp10
Why wouldn't it just evap off with the dip stick out....and contaminents....come on, whats really going to get in there.




f )Your suggestion of exposing dipstick when hot ... to release water vapour ,if any,makes for perfect sense.It's practical and realistic.

g )Non-water contaminants (of air-borne nature ?) ingressing into oil sump through 'temporarily removed' dipstick ....... OMG , that's stretching my ........

OP, evaluate for yourself, I've no doubt whatsoever .... your oil IS good to go.

If need be ,please continue doing what you did :"nope what i have been doing was the everyday since this happen when i arrive at work and when i arrive home i would take out the dip stick to allow any moisture to be removed.
And i do 150km a trip, mostly highway"


From Brybo86,
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb..._AT#Post2405713


Note: I would strongly appreciate sticking to the (facts of the) case .... and not digressing away into .....

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: Whitewolf
Very good.

I hope the OP is reading all of this.


And I sure hope the OP ignores all the inaccurate and confusing comments by those "driveby" dipsticks!

Originally Posted By: zeng
Note: I would strongly appreciate sticking to the (facts of the) case .... and not digressing away into ....


State an accurate data point and you might actually be taken seriously.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: Nissan01


SO i changed my transmission oil today, when refilling i left for 5mins with the funnel connected and rain came and fell
i closed the bonnet in time but at least a few drops got into my transmission oil.


Originally Posted By: zeng

OP has mentioned at post#1 .........A few drops .. for only 20 seconds..before i closed the bonnet ..............Philipp10 , you are absolutely spot on suggesting :it may be, may be ..a teaspoon of water.



That doesn't compute. Are you now making up stories?

Here are some actual facts: The OP had his hood up for 5 minutes. He could not determine how much water got into the oil.

A funnel has a geometry such that open area has a much larger "capture" area than the bottom of the funnel.

Again I repeat, water is a contaminate and doesn't make a good lubricant.

 

[Subdued]

Transmission oil change is far cheaper than a new transmission, while OP isn't even sure how much contaminant got in there in the first place.

Why are people actually encouraging OP to put his vehicle and finances at further risk?

penny wise, pound foolish.

 

[zeng]

OP,

Fact # 1 :Water contamination in lubricants is a problem to be managed ........by oil formulation etc.

Fact # 2 :Water contamination does NOT condemn lubricant oils ......... unconditionally.


"Quotes from John Sander ,Vice President-Technology of Lubrication Engineers , Inc.

a ) While certain lubricant formulations are designed to separate from water, others are
intended to form a stable emulsion with water. In either case, water becomes a contaminant
and can cause major problems both to the lubricants and to the equipment the lubricants are
supposed to keep running smoothly and reliably. ...... Page 2/9


b ) Certain lubricants must be formulated to separate easily from water so that the water can be removed, while others must hold on to the water. .............. Page 2/9

c )Consequently, engine oils are designed to disperse and hold onto water until the oil gets hot enough to “cook” the water out during vehicle operation. .............. Unlike the engine oil example, this change leads to negative consequences in machinery where the oil temperature never gets hot enough to “cook out” the water. In these situations, the water must be physically removed. ........ Page 2 & 3/9

d )Catalysis: Water is polar – as are metal surfaces. This polarity results in mutual attraction between water and the metal surfaces inside machinery. Certain lubricant additives, such as detergents, dispersants, and some antiwear additives, are also polar. Polar additives are naturally attracted to the water and metal surfaces. The metal surfaces serve as a catalyst, speeding up reactions between the water, the additives, and the metal surfaces themselves. One possible result is a stable, almost soap-like, emulsion that collects within the lubricant and on metal surfaces. ........... Page 3/9

e ) An emulsion is a stable mixture of two insoluble liquids, like oil and water. Once this point is reached with certain oils, it is impossible to “break” the emulsion and remove the water from the oil......... Page 4/9

f )Types of Water Contamination: Water contamination exists in three forms within lubricated machinery: free water, dissolved water, and emulsion. Free water, as the name suggests, is water that separates from the oil and collects in pools in low areas within a machine or in its oil reservoir. Free water is the easiest form of water to remove from a lubricant because it is present as a separate layer below the lubricant. The separated water layer can be drained away.
Dissolved water is solublized into the oil and cannot be easily separated. As noted earlier, water and oil generally do not mix, so the concentration of dissolved water in new oil is usually rather low.
Emulsion is a stable, milky mixture of oil and water that is diffi cult to separate. It differs from dissolved water in that it is almost a gel-like dispersion of water droplets within the oil. If it is not properly managed, water in any of these forms can result in problems for mechanical equipment and lubricants used within the equipment. ...... Page 4/9

g )Finally, it must be noted that lubricant formulation plays a key role in mitigating the problem of water contamination. Base oil and additive composition can have significant impacts on the ease of water removal and on the effectiveness of the techniques we have discussed. ..... Page 7/9

h ) Therefore, machine reliability often starts with picking a lubricant that can neutralize or mitigate the effects of water contamination. There are many lubricant choices available for users to consider, and it is always important that they evaluate the original equipment manufacturer’s specifications prior to selecting the lubricant...... Page 8/9"

http://www.lelubricants.com/lit/news/White Papers/water_contamination.pdf

 

[MolaKule]

To the OP: The dipsticks are wrong again.

Quote:
Fact # 1 :Water contamination in lubricants is a problem to be managed ........by oil formulation etc.


ATF's aren't formulated to handle lots of moisture and water intrusion.

Quote:
Fact # 2 :Water contamination does NOT condemn lubricant oils ......... unconditionally.


It does for an ATF because of #!.