Water heater drain valve.

[jhellwig]

Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
Water heaters are obsolete.

You should be upgrading to tankless gas systems, period.


Not really. Tankless systems still aren't quite there yet. When you see the aisle of Home Depot filled with tankless systems, that's the time to buy them. One of the main problems with them is that they require a greater volume of gas, usually have to use a 3/4 inch line instead of a 1/2 line which is what feeds most water heaters. And then the cost is higher, when they break in 5 years, no one has the parts and no one will know how to fix them.

When you hot water tank goes, you just run to Home Depot and you could be up in running in an hour. Try that with a tankless.

I'm a landlord, believe me, when the math works, I'll do it, just not before then. The math still doesn't work.


If you got electric water heater, you will be ahead installing a gas/electric tankless.


If you've got an electric water heater, you'd be ahead if you just installed a gas water heater. Usually there's a reason people don't though, no gas or venting problems.


Electric isn't an option for everyone nor is it a very good way to heat water. Gas Is the best if you are set up for it. Much quicker and faster to recover than electric. I have not heard much good about tankless water heaters weather they are gas or electric. Not very reliable.

I am an electrician (not a residential electrician) and I want all gas appliances in my house. Makes life much easier.

 

[JTK]

I too am not sold on gas fired tankless units. BIL had one installed in their 10yr/old home about a year ago. They are on well water that doesn't get the best flow or pressure at times. If flow drops too low, so does your nice hot water (kills the flame). I don't care to have expensive electronics added to the equation for what should be a simple gas fired water heater.

 

[DBMaster]

Do some reading on the tankless heaters. I don't think they are all they're cracked up to be. I might consider one on a new home, but a retrofit comes with several installation issues and a payback period of 15-20 years given today's natural gas costs. The period could shorten if NG prices rise significantly, but still...

I only know one person who had a retrofit done so it's not exactly a scientific study, but the cost was pretty staggering. They were willing to pay it because a slow leak in their old heater went undetected for a long time because they had a pier and beam house. They ended up with toxic mold and were out of their house for nearly a year dealing with all the issues (fighting with the insurer was a big one). So, in their case I can see the willingness to spend $3,000.

 

[HTSS_TR]

My gas water heater experience:

1. My 17 years old gas water heater in previous home was working very well when I sold the house 2 years ago. I never did anything to it other than set temperature a little cooler in summer and a little hotter in winter.

2. We had/have most gas appliances except the oven, we also had/have gas cloth dryer. Combining appliances and cloth dryer and water heater our gas cost a month was and is around $20 a month. We had and have gas furnace, our gas cost in winter was about $10-30 more.

My estimate the cost of running my gas water heater is no more than $10/mo. It is not possible to save enough for switching to tankless water heater to recover the cost in less than 15-20 years.

 

[DBMaster]

^You must have had pretty soft water. I'd be interested to hear from any of you who have water softeners regarding your water heater lifespans. I'll bet the appliances end up lasting at least twice as long.

 

[SHOZ]

Originally Posted By: DBMaster
^You must have had pretty soft water. I'd be interested to hear from any of you who have water softeners regarding your water heater lifespans. I'll bet the appliances end up lasting at least twice as long.
Currently on 22 years with my 5 year guaranteed water heater and soft water.

 

[SHOZ]

The plastic drain valves only have about a 1/4" opening. Take it out and install a ball valve on a short nipple.

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
The plastic drain valves only have about a 1/4" opening. Take it out and install a ball valve on a short nipple.


A few others mentioned this and it's definitely the best way to go, especially if you install a 3/4" quarter turn ball valve. That's a BIG opening to flush out sediment or scale and would create the most flow. Add a 3/4" to 1/2" male reducer to the ball valve so you can thread a garden hose on it if need be. This setup is going to stick out the furthest, so you'd want to cap it or take the handle off the valve for safety.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: DBMaster
^You must have had pretty soft water. I'd be interested to hear from any of you who have water softeners regarding your water heater lifespans. I'll bet the appliances end up lasting at least twice as long.

We don't have water softener, we have city water pipe directly into the house. Probably our city water is very good so that we have no problem with sediment and scale in the water heater.

The original gas water heater lasted 27-28 years. The house was built in 1970, we bought/moved in 1997 and didn't replace it until a year later for a small leak of about half a pint a day.

As I said, I never touched anything other than temperature setting.

 

[DBMaster]

20+ years is an enviable lifespan. Of course, the tanks may have been thicker or of different materials in the 70's, maybe? My city water is relatively hard and that hardness mainly consist of mineral salts that form scale. Since the drought broke last year with flooding rains the lakes got flushed out a bit and the hardness has dropped by 30%. Maybe that will bode well for heater lifespan. Though, the way people waste water around here it won't be long before we drop the lake levels again, especially with the extreme growth in the region.

 

[Vikas]

May be I should start a new thread but yesterday night I had to fix kitchen faucet and afterwards the 16 year old shutoff valve started leaking from the stem. I pretty much panicked given that one is soldered on and I do not have the courage or the expertise to tackle soldering job under the sink.

After thinking it over, I decided to tighten the only nut on the valve and the leak subsided. In the morning, I still noticed a drop from the valve, so I gave one degree twist to the packing nut. I am not sure if that is going to hold or is it time to get a plumber involved? From what I have researched, I should get all the old style shutoff valve replaced with the quarter turn ball valve while paying for single visit from the plumber. They are all eventually going to give me problem and the only time I will know it is when I really need the shut off valve to work!

 

[DBMaster]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
May be I should start a new thread but yesterday night I had to fix kitchen faucet and afterwards the 16 year old shutoff valve started leaking from the stem. I pretty much panicked given that one is soldered on and I do not have the courage or the expertise to tackle soldering job under the sink.

After thinking it over, I decided to tighten the only nut on the valve and the leak subsided. In the morning, I still noticed a drop from the valve, so I gave one degree twist to the packing nut. I am not sure if that is going to hold or is it time to get a plumber involved? From what I have researched, I should get all the old style shutoff valve replaced with the quarter turn ball valve while paying for single visit from the plumber. They are all eventually going to give me problem and the only time I will know it is when I really need the shut off valve to work!


It is off topic, but I feel your pain. That is why whenever I do plumbing work I prefer to shut off the water outside to the whole house rather than touch those shut-offs.

If you have an inch, or so, of pipe sticking out of the wall you can hacksaw off the shutoff and buy a push-on type ball valve. I've done this with both my toilets and several of my handyman clients' bathroom sinks. It might even work with a half inch of protruding pipe.

 

[SHOZ]

Rubber hose and two hose clamps. Use a needle nose vise grips as a shut off......

 

[DBMaster]

Deleted

 

[Vikas]

Later I saw youtube video of how to replace the shut off valve with a ball valve which uses compression fitting to attach to the incoming 1/2 feed pipe. I think I should be able to handle that. At least I have a tubing cutter and practiced cutting a scrap 3/8 tubing! There is ample pipe coming in from the floor. But can I replace the guts of the existing shut off valve from a new similar valve? That way I will not have to do any cutting. I will most likely have to tackle this when I replace the faucet along with the soap dispenser and the sprayer. The spout has developed a pin hole :-( I will be discarding the existing hard lines going to the faucet.

Quote:
Rubber hose and two hose clamps. Use a needle nose vise grips as a shut off......
Sorry, do not understand what you are trying to say here.

 

[JTK]

Vikas, hopefully your main water shutoff in the house is OK. I wouldn't even snug a packing nut unless you can verify you can shut the main off. I've been down that road. LOL.

Anyway, search "Sharkbite fittings". There's other name brands out there too. They're all awesome and it's what I typically use for my plumbing projects. Even if you've only got an inch stub of copper pipe to work with, you can stuff a sharkbite valve or fitting on it and go from there. They simply push on. Some of them can be removed with a special tool. I've never had to take one back off and I've never had one leak.

 

[Vikas]

I have two shut off valves; one just before the meter and the one immediately after the meter! I am hoping at least one of them should work

Is Sharkbite better than standard compression fitting? If so, I should just stock few of them as spares. Unfortunately, some of them may not have enough clearance to get a tubing cutter on or to put new valve. Builder's plumber never care about how home owner can fix it later :-(

 

[DBMaster]

I like a hacksaw better for this particular tubing cut. You can preserve more of the copper line that way because you can cut closer to the existing shutoff. I have used both conventional compression fit shutoffs as well as the "Shark Bite" type. The push on ones are much easier and if you ever have to replace one you won't have to cut away any more copper line.

 

[Vikas]

The new Delta faucet has so much cost cutting :-( Even though it has stainless steel finish, it must be made of plastic innards. There is no heft. The existing faucet is all metal. I am going to delay replacing it for a while at least.

 

[Vikas]

How long the push to connect aka sharkbite type of fittings are on the market? How will they withstand decade of hard water? They have to have some type of silicon o-ring or something to form the seal inside. Could it last for decades without deteriorating inside? Is there a reputed independent agency which does accelerated long term testing?

I am assuming compression fittings have been around for multiple decades and once properly installed they do not (should not?) degrade on their own even under hard water conditions.