Water heater drain valve.

[JTK]

The natural gas water heater in our home is probably ~8yrs old. A few months back I thought I'd do a good deed and "flush" it. The water looked clear coming out and I was never able to get the lovely plastic drain valve to seat properly afterwards. Installing a cap over the outlet worked for awhile, but it began dribbling from the packing. Trying to snug that made things worse, which is customary for my plumbing repair attempts.

I picked up a 3" 3/4" brass nipple and a 3/4" hose bib/wall cock to replace it with today. Typical disaster. I got the plastic valve to budge so I thought I was home free. Drained the tank, had at the valve again and it wouldn't budge. My attempts to loosen it snapped it right off. Given there's enough room in there to carefully run a hack-saw blade, I was able to cut some slits in what remained of the plastic and popped it out thanks to some tips I found on the interwebs.

All good now, but I'm sure the water heater won't be long for this world. With the 3/4" drain bung wide open I was able to poke a finger in there and feel all kinds of white granular goo. Yayyy. I guess I could try flushing it again and jamb up the nice new hose bib!

 

[JC1]

They don't design those to be maintained. The insides probably look worse and the anode rod is probably half gone.

 

[Vern_in_IL]

At least you were able to drain the tank!

We removed a huge full 50 gallon water heater out of a mobile home, the drain pipe was stopped up before the drain valve, we had to wrestle that thing on a heavy duty hand truck and rolled it to the back door and fished a wire up the drain pipe and took forever to get it clear.

 

[Stelth]

Actually cleaning a water heater out isn't easy. Most of the deposits are soft, but they don't come out when you drain it. If I were really concerned about mine, for instance if it had enough deposits to rumble when it fires up, I might pour a gallon of white vinegar into it after emptying the tank, and flush it out after a few hours.

I knew a guy who made a fitting that allowed him to attach a small length of 1/4" copper tubing to a hose, and he used that to try to blast deposits off of the bottom. To do that, of course, you have to have the drain cock removed so that you can move the tube around in there, and something to catch the water.

 

[Reggaemon]

Flush the tank with just the 3 inch nipple attached. The large chunks will not pass through the hose bib.

 

[DBMaster]

The deposits that the water here leaves behind aren't going to "flush" out by just draining, or even hitting them with a pressurized stream of water. I thought I'd be really diligent and replace the anode rod at about five years. The thing wouldn't budge, even with an impact wrench. Once there are a decent amount of hard mineral deposits stuck to the bottom of the tank the water doesn't heat as quickly. My original, builder-grade cheapo got to 11 years before making all kinds of nice sounds whenever the gas flame was on. I decided to replace it rather than wait for it to leak. The replacement was Home Depot's "best" GE branded Rheem. It has a twelve year warranty.

I personally believe that the makeup of your water, more than anything else, determines how long your heater will last. They are not cheap, but if you can replace one yourself you save about $500. I'm willing to spring for a new heater every 10-15 years. By then, they are costing you more money in gas.

 

[Wolf359]

The impact wrench isn't enough for an anode rod. You need to use a half inch breaker bar. I used a 4 foot pipe at the end of the breaker bar to get the anode rods out. They didn't budge with just the breaker bar even with 2 people tugging at it. It's all about leverage and torque. Oh and I also sprayed down the nut with Kroil.

 

[JTK]

It seems the drain valves are designed to be just that. A one time use method of hopefully draining the water heater when the whole unit fails.

What I don't get is what makes a bottom of the line 40g high $420 now?!? The one I have is a sealed burner unit with the clicker igniter and I know those were about $250 or even less back in 2008, because I installed this exact same unit in our last home.

Could you imagine have a plumbing outfit install a 40g high for you? I bet it would be a $800-1000 bill now. Wow.

 

[DBMaster]

The one I bought is 40 gallon. It cost $420, before tax. I checked several options to have it installed. All came to $1,000 (heater plus installation). Really!? It took me less than an hour. Mine is in the garage so niceties like drain pans and drain pipes are not necessary and the house came with none of that in 1996.

I did try the breaker bar route and only ended up moving the whole heater. I doused the nut pretty good beforehand as well. Maybe I'll try again with a helper, but since the heater is on a small raised platform it's pretty difficult to get into a good position.

I do realize that if a plumber does the job they have to pay a profit, er, I mean permit fee to the city. Plus, they have overhead, insurance, and licensing maintenance costs. I wouldn't deny anyone their livelihood. I think I'll stick to doing it myself.

 

[Wolf359]

You need to find a plumber that still does it by flat rate. I used to have a plumber that only charged his regular hourly rate to install one. Then the last time he installed one, he wanted the $1000, but I told him to just charge me the regular hourly rate which he did. But after that I stopped using him and found another plumber that still does it by the hour. So now I pay between $120-$200 depending on how complex it is and how badly the plumber needs the money.

The high ones cost more money, I normally just get the short one. And yes, when you just use a breaker bar, the whole tank moves, when you add a pipe, you hear a big crack when the rod moves. At first you think you might have broken it, but it's just the anode rod finally giving up and moving.

 

[DBMaster]

I originally thought of paying someone to do it because I was a bit intimidated by the job. I'm not sure why now. It was not difficult. The hardest part was lifting the new heater up onto the three foot high platform. I just bear hugged it and use good lifting technique. A 40 gallon heater doesn't have a very large diameter.

 

[abycat]

I think I am up to about 50 now and I'll tell you it gets easier every time you do one

just replaced a 100 gal at one of my apartments. It was a pain but we did get 24 years out of it! New ones are less than half that.

 

[Vern_in_IL]

Water heaters are obsolete.

You should be upgrading to tankless gas systems, period.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
Water heaters are obsolete.

You should be upgrading to tankless gas systems, period.


Not really. Tankless systems still aren't quite there yet. When you see the aisle of Home Depot filled with tankless systems, that's the time to buy them. One of the main problems with them is that they require a greater volume of gas, usually have to use a 3/4 inch line instead of a 1/2 line which is what feeds most water heaters. And then the cost is higher, when they break in 5 years, no one has the parts and no one will know how to fix them.

When you hot water tank goes, you just run to Home Depot and you could be up in running in an hour. Try that with a tankless.

I'm a landlord, believe me, when the math works, I'll do it, just not before then. The math still doesn't work.

 

[Vern_in_IL]

Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
Water heaters are obsolete.

You should be upgrading to tankless gas systems, period.


Not really. Tankless systems still aren't quite there yet. When you see the aisle of Home Depot filled with tankless systems, that's the time to buy them. One of the main problems with them is that they require a greater volume of gas, usually have to use a 3/4 inch line instead of a 1/2 line which is what feeds most water heaters. And then the cost is higher, when they break in 5 years, no one has the parts and no one will know how to fix them.

When you hot water tank goes, you just run to Home Depot and you could be up in running in an hour. Try that with a tankless.

I'm a landlord, believe me, when the math works, I'll do it, just not before then. The math still doesn't work.


If you got electric water heater, you will be ahead installing a gas/electric tankless.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
Water heaters are obsolete.

You should be upgrading to tankless gas systems, period.


Not really. Tankless systems still aren't quite there yet. When you see the aisle of Home Depot filled with tankless systems, that's the time to buy them. One of the main problems with them is that they require a greater volume of gas, usually have to use a 3/4 inch line instead of a 1/2 line which is what feeds most water heaters. And then the cost is higher, when they break in 5 years, no one has the parts and no one will know how to fix them.

When you hot water tank goes, you just run to Home Depot and you could be up in running in an hour. Try that with a tankless.

I'm a landlord, believe me, when the math works, I'll do it, just not before then. The math still doesn't work.


If you got electric water heater, you will be ahead installing a gas/electric tankless.


If you've got an electric water heater, you'd be ahead if you just installed a gas water heater. Usually there's a reason people don't though, no gas or venting problems.

 

[xfactor9]

It sounds like this was your first flush in 8 years? That's equivalent to a 50,000mi OCI. No wonder you had issues. Water heaters should be flushed annually, or more often if you have hard water or high sediment. I have soft water but high sediment, so I flush annually and never have any issues with the drain valve.

If you're able to remove the anode rod, you can replace it if it's worn which I'm guessing it is. While it's out, you can pour in a food-grade de-scaler (acid) to remove the mineral buildup.

 

[Rick in PA]

Put a hose on the drain valve and route it over to the basement drain. That's the set-up I have. Every month or so, when I'm down in the basement, I'll drain the tank for 20-30 seconds. No problems with sediment build-up.

The water heater that came with the house was never drained. When it failed, it was half full of sediment and quite heavy to remove.

 

[DBMaster]

Sediment and scale are two different issues. Where I live sediment is not a major issue. I had been draining the GE/Rheem heater I mentioned earlier, but very little, if any, sediment came out. So, I decided it wasn't really worth risking a leaking valve to drain it. (It is a brass valve at least, but it's a washer seal and not a ball valve.) It's the scale that can't really be cleaned in an effective way that will eventually do it in.

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted By: xfactor9
It sounds like this was your first flush in 8 years? That's equivalent to a 50,000mi OCI. No wonder you had issues. Water heaters should be flushed annually, or more often if you have hard water or high sediment. I have soft water but high sediment, so I flush annually and never have any issues with the drain valve.


We've been in the home for going on 5yrs and it was the fist time I used the valve. With the valve removed, I could feel a layer of soft sediment around the perimeter. Nothing high enough to plug the drain outlet. But yeah, If you haven't done it on a yearly basis, you are better off not touching this valve unless you want to replace it. Even with a yearly regimen of flushing, that valve is going to fail on you at some point. They are not designed for repeated use.