Warm up idling

[Patman]

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Then explain to me why if I drive my truck 30 seconds after starting it up in the morning I get crank knock?

Is that normal and just because your UOA results are fine I should just ignore it and drive on destroying my engine?

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So because YOUR engine sounds funny, that means everyone else who is driving their engine cold is hurting their engines? Your theory makes no sense. Something is wrong with your engine, as there are literally hundreds of thousands of people out there in the world who start their engines in cold climates, immediately pull away, and have no strange noises.

I've owned many different vehicles (16 to be exact) and every single one of them has been treated the same way in the winter (start and go, but drive gentle) and not a single one of them had any strange engine noises like you describe.

 

[Patman]

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Hate to tell you this,but most American people with automobiles, SUV's dont rely on UOA's. They simply warm their vehicles up,and continue onto their day to day routines without any problems.

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What's your point? There are probably just as many, if not more people, who start and go with no problems too. I just brought up the UOAs since it's real tangible evidence that engine wear is not higher with people who drive and go with no idling to warm it up.

 

[CBDFrontier06]

Excellent UOA or not, the horrible noises I get from the valvetrain in my Frontier 4.0 is enough to make me want to warm it up before driving. I got in a hurry one morning, cranked it up, backed out and headed to work and the metallic clattering was unnerving to say the least. It's silent when warm so whether or not wear metals appear in the oil, I'd prefer not to put my cam, lifers, chain, etc. through that. Gas wasting aside, what are the reasons against warm-ups? I think I read a few pages back that you get gas in the oil....why would there be any more gas entering the oil while idling in my driveway than there is while driving?

 

[bar1]

Why don't you get a block heater, pan heater or even better, a Webasto/Espar?
I have a webasto and the coolant is at least 75C when I start to drive. Even if it's -35C outside..

 

[Ramblin Fever]

CBDFrontier06 - agree 100%.

I'm sure there are many other things being wasted in life, not just gas, though idling doesn't help, I do agree with that - I average less mpg in winter because of this, I know. But that's my choice, and each of us has our own opinions on cold cranking/driving, etc. nothing wrong with that.

But let's admit to the fact that everytime the key is turned we're wasting fuel, everyday that we chose to drive ourselves, either by necessity or preference, rather then taking public transportation or commuting with another co-worker, we're wasting fuel, oil, rubber (in the tires/hoses/belts), etc.

I can admit to wasting many other things more then I waste fuel, i.e paper, water, electricity, aluminum cans, plastic.

I'm sure we can all attest to this, as many many more things are also involved in our daily lives, not just fuel. Although, I'll state again, I do agree to extra fuel being wasted in idling, but we keep beating a dead horse here trying to prove who's right/who's wrong.

There really is no right or wrong answer, is there??

I don't think so, as those that feel they're right (non-idlers) can prove their UOA's aren't affected, and that the only *real* issue is extra fuel.

The idlers can only prove that their UOA's aren't affected either, and that their engines are quieter upon take-off.

I agree with both sides of the coin to some extent, but I also say that fuel & oil for that matter, are not the only thing's us BITOG's members waste.

 

[BlazerLT]

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Then explain to me why if I drive my truck 30 seconds after starting it up in the morning I get crank knock?

Is that normal and just because your UOA results are fine I should just ignore it and drive on destroying my engine?

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So because YOUR engine sounds funny, that means everyone else who is driving their engine cold is hurting their engines? Your theory makes no sense. Something is wrong with your engine, as there are literally hundreds of thousands of people out there in the world who start their engines in cold climates, immediately pull away, and have no strange noises.

I've owned many different vehicles (16 to be exact) and every single one of them has been treated the same way in the winter (start and go, but drive gentle) and not a single one of them had any strange engine noises like you describe.

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There is nothign wrong with my engine at all. The fact is your generalizing about how people should just start up and drive away based on your UOA results is just unfounded.

The thing is that there isn't enough oil flow throughout the engine in cold temperatures for the engine which is normal.

Funny if there was something wrong with my engine don't you think it would do it all the time? But no it doesn't, If I idle it for 3 minutes it is fine, and not one noise.

Anyone stating that 3 minutes is too long is just being neurotic.

I would rather allow my oil pump to get a chance to at least ciruculate my oil a bit before driving off and be cautious than to tell people to drive off with a dry cold engine rattling and knocking away for 25 cents worth of gas.

I am not the only one here that has talked about the noises accompanying driving off to early in cold weather.

 

[klnyc]

New guy here and its my 1st post about warming up and idling.

I have a brand new 2007 Outback 5MT. I live only 1/8 miles away from the freeway. This how I goto the freeway. Pull out the drive make left and another left and I'm onto the freeway ramp. All those take no more than a 2 mins. Bottom line, I rather warm up for 5-10 min then start and go. I live North eastern part and it get cold here.

 

[Trucku]

Welcome....

Now you went and done it and jumped into a can of worms

 

[MNgopher]

Sigh... One side adamant that severe engine damage is occuring without warmup idling. The other side driving without idling - also without severe engine damage.

Who's right? They both work.

 

[Auto-Union]

The owners themselves need to make an informed decision based on their own preferances and situation - that being the specifics of the climate, engine and most importantly, the factors dictated by the roadway itself.

 

[BlazerLT]

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Sigh... One side adamant that severe engine damage is occuring without warmup idling. The other side driving without idling - also without severe engine damage.

Who's right? They both work.

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Idling has never damaged an engine. Stressing an engine without proper lubrication flow has caused damage.

 

[Patman]

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Idling has never damaged an engine. Stressing an engine without proper lubrication flow has caused damage.

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Once again, where is this proof that you have that driving right away is causing so much damage? I've never heard of it.

 

[[email protected]]

Ever notice that out on the 'net, specifically automotive forums or anything to do with automotive - that there are always people ready to tell you your doing _______________
"to each his own" You have to sit back and realize that this is just a forum and that the human contact factor is being limited. I dont get offended. Everybodys got their opinion

 

[BlazerLT]

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Idling has never damaged an engine. Stressing an engine without proper lubrication flow has caused damage.

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Once again, where is this proof that you have that driving right away is causing so much damage? I've never heard of it.

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How about the thousands of inner city cabs that idle their engines for hours a day. How about police cruisers. they never shut off their engines yet they get crazy high miles on them.

Yet they get 400,000 - 600,000 or more kms or more out of the engine.

They idle for hours and essentially never turn off the engine, but yet you are pushing some motion that 3 minutes of idling is damaging your engine.

3 minutes of idling will NOT dilute the oil with fuel. Anyone saying that needs to grasp reality or change their PCV valve.

 

[brianl703]

My Saab 93 makes no unusual noises at startup even when it's 17F out. But then, I suppose it was probably designed for this weather

 

[DragRace]

Tonight after work, we had low temperaures down around -10 degrees. Everyone went out to their vehicles,started them up,and Oh my goodness,they let them warm up,since it was so cold outside,there was snow on the vehicles,not to mention the ice covering the windshields as well. I guess I should've said "Hey dont be doing that, Get in your vehicles and drive, your wasting GAS!

 

[CBDFrontier06]

I can't help but think that the ones who condemn warm-ups have no idea what's its like to jump in a car that's been sitting outside in 20 below temps overnight. Every breath you exhale turns to frost on the inside of the windshield, the seats are cold and hard, and every moving part of the vehicle is stiff and reluctant to move. I've had Honda gearshifters feel like I was stirring a pot of molasses. My Oldsmobile Calais automatic, which otherwise drove flawlessly, would sometimes take up to 10 seconds to shift into reverse. Who want's to jump right into a situation like this and drive? Having spent 17 years in Wyoming, seeing outdoor thermometers reach -60, I think I'll risk ruining my engine with a few minutes of warm-up. I may be best that we agree to disagree about this item, since I never once ruined a car by doing it, and the naysayers claim they're not hurting anything by not doing it. Nuff said.

 

[Auto-Union]

People are arguing the extremes when we all should know, as Plato said, "the highest good lies in the mean". Always true, that means somewhere in the middle is best- don't floor your car away the instant it starts at -20f nor start and let it idle for a half-hour when it's +50f outside. Common sense.

 

[Flipside]

Who needs tennis when there's a thread like this?

 

[GT11]

I like to warm up my car until the temp gauge is 1/4 above the cold line. Since the subaru flat four sounds like a diesel truck when it first starts up in 10 degree weather.