VW Tiguan 2.0 TSI - Multiple cylinder misfire

[StevieC]

My aunt brought me her VW 2.0L TSI Tiguan last night because her check engine light was on and the car wasn't running well it stumbles a bit at idle and didn't seem to have a lot of power. (80,000km / 50K miles) My dad asked me to look at it for him because he's not up to it and can't say no to family. (Of-course I obliged) She took it to VW for diagnoses as she was due for an oil change anyway and they told her it needed a valve cleaning and it was $800 CDN. We went to Canadian Tire and got a can of CRC Turbo Valve and Intake Cleaner and treated the vehicle which was a royal PITA because of the way the air ducting runs. We had to spray it from underneath which was a pain being -20 (-4F) here currently with snow on the ground and without me having a garage. Oh well. We let it soak and then took it for a good drive as per the instructions. Use the straw from a Seafoam spray can that is bent for sealing it to the air intake. Works great in this application for CRC. At first it felt like it was flooded when you would step on and would hesitate, it then quickly loosened up and by the end of the Italian Tune Up drive we took it on it was purring like a kitten. I reset her check engine light and monitored the cylinder for misfire using my dad's scan tool which can do OE type monitoring and tests (Snap-On) and it didn't count any on a quick test drive after resetting the check engine light. Previously it was misfiring on 1 & 4 intermittently. Hopefully that is all it needed. I wish I could have gotten pictures of the valves with my boroscope but this engine is a PITA to do anything on so I didn't bother but it was a night and day difference with the treatment so I wanted to share it here in case it can help anyone else. I advised her to use Top-Tier only (she uses whatever is cheap so probably top-tier and non at times), I also advised her to use a fuel treatment every 6,000km (3750 miles) or so to keep the injectors firing optimally to help limit poorer combustion contributing to the problem. Told her to change her oil more often and we ordered her a catch can to put on in case it will help like my cousins Veloster. My uncle can empty it, he's a pretty hands on guy with most other things. We also advised her to take it for an Italian Tune-Up run on the highway as much as possible as she does mainly city driving with some highway. She was cursing VW having come from a Nissan Pathfinder before. I told her that all OE's are moving to Turbo and Direct Injection and that some are managing it better than others. I can feel her pain though. 80K KM (50K Miles) and already it's an issue and she is aware of my cousin having issues with her Veloster at 30K KM when it was new.

 

[Sunnyinhollister]

Will top tier fuel or a fuel treatment work to keep the valves clean on a DI motor?

 

[georgemiller]

My neighbor several days ago was stuck at a light with his flashers on. I pulled over and helped push the car to side of the rode. His vehicle was also the VW Tiguan I don't know what year but fairly new. He explained that the car was just in the shop and they replaced both fuel pumps at the cost of $ 1000. The fuel pumps he stated are under the rear seat. I guess news pumps didn't solve the problem. I don't know anything about these VW's.

 

[Kjmack]

Originally Posted by StevieC

My aunt brought me her VW 2.0L TSI Tiguan last night because her check engine light was on and the car wasn't running well it stumbles a bit at idle and didn't seem to have a lot of power. (80,000km / 50K miles) My dad asked me to look at it for him because he's not up to it and can't say no to family. (Of-course I obliged) She took it to VW for diagnoses as she was due for an oil change anyway and they told her it needed a valve cleaning and it was $800 CDN. We went to Canadian Tire and got a can of CRC Turbo Valve and Intake Cleaner and treated the vehicle which was a royal PITA because of the way the air ducting runs. We had to spray it from underneath which was a pain being -20 (-4F) here currently with snow on the ground and without me having a garage. Oh well. We let it soak and then took it for a good drive as per the instructions. Use the straw from a Seafoam spray can that is bent for sealing it to the air intake. Works great in this application for CRC. At first it felt like it was flooded when you would step on and would hesitate, it then quickly loosened up and by the end of the Italian Tune Up drive we took it on it was purring like a kitten. I reset her check engine light and monitored the cylinder for misfire using my dad's scan tool which can do OE type monitoring and tests (Snap-On) and it didn't count any on a quick test drive after resetting the check engine light. Previously it was misfiring on 1 & 4 intermittently. Hopefully that is all it needed. I wish I could have gotten pictures of the valves with my boroscope but this engine is a PITA to do anything on so I didn't bother but it was a night and day difference with the treatment so I wanted to share it here in case it can help anyone else. I advised her to use Top-Tier only (she uses whatever is cheap so probably top-tier and non at times), I also advised her to use a fuel treatment every 6,000km (3750 miles) or so to keep the injectors firing optimally to help limit poorer combustion contributing to the problem. Told her to change her oil more often and we ordered her a catch can to put on in case it will help like my cousins Veloster. My uncle can empty it, he's a pretty hands on guy with most other things. We also advised her to take it for an Italian Tune-Up run on the highway as much as possible as she does mainly city driving with some highway. She was cursing VW having come from a Nissan Pathfinder before. I told her that all OE's are moving to Turbo and Direct Injection and that some are managing it better than others. I can feel her pain though. 80K KM (50K Miles) and already it's an issue and she is aware of my cousin having issues with her Veloster at 30K KM when it was new.

Steve you may want to change the plugs fairly soon for her also . 50k for VW plugs is about the lifespan . She also should do a oil change in a couple of weeks after that treatment . Good job helping your aunt out . Nothing is easy in this weather

 

[OVERKILL]

They (the dealer) would likely walnut blast the valves, hence the price tag. It's certainly more effective, but if the CRC did a good enough job to stop the problem then I don't see an issue with doing what you did.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

I hope the catalytic converter survived. That's the issue with using these types of spray cleaners because unlike the DPF of diesels that chunk of crud won't burn off.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by Sunnyinhollister

Will top tier fuel or a fuel treatment work to keep the valves clean on a DI motor?

By keeping the injectors clean it helps the engine with its combustion dynamic and will keep it running as optimal as possible keeping fuel dilution as minimal as possible and combustion by-products as low as possible entering the crank case and being refed to the engine over the valves via the breathing system. Also if there is some overlapping of the valves with the injectors a mildi washing effect could occur and this can be better with a fuel additive used regularly. It's the best we have for setups like this.

Originally Posted by Kjmack

Steve you may want to change the plugs fairly soon for her also . 50k for VW plugs is about the lifespan . She also should do a oil change in a couple of weeks after that treatment . Good job helping your aunt out . Nothing is easy in this weather

Noted... Didn't think of that with so many cars being good for 60K-100K miles now... She is 2 hours away from us but I'll see if she can get down this weekend. I'll snap some pictures too. It was too dark out last night.

Originally Posted by OVERKILL

They (the dealer) would likely walnut blast the valves, hence the price tag. It's certainly more effective, but if the CRC did a good enough job to stop the problem then I don't see an issue with doing what you did.

It's too early to tell but judging by the way it was running before and after it did something. Whether it's enough for 80,000 additional kilometers before it needs doing again I don't know but we will see over the next couple of weeks before she comes back for the catch can to be installed.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl

I hope the catalytic converter survived. That's the issue with using these types of spray cleaners because unlike the DPF of diesels that chunk of crud won't burn off.

I haven't had this issue yet but given how much crud she must have had on the valves to cause 2 cylinder to misfire I would imagine a lot of that stuff is now in the converter unless it softened it enough so it's not a chunk. Who knows... Time will tell. Maybe what I should do in future is disconnect the cat's when doing this treatment and see what comes out of the manifolds. Would be interesting and it would safeguard the converter during the process. Hmmmmmm I've seen enough now that I wouldn't buy a direct injection where there is only one set of injectors. I would only buy a dual setup. I really think my daily driver is going to be a classic car in future because it's easier to work on and I can just keep swapping out the engine/transmissions as needed with the miles I accumulate and really fuel economy hasn't improved that much over the decades other than at cold starts with fuel injection versus carb.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by StevieC

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl

I hope the catalytic converter survived. That's the issue with using these types of spray cleaners because unlike the DPF of diesels that chunk of crud won't burn off.

I haven't had this issue yet but given how much crud she must have had on the valves to cause 2 cylinder to misfire I would imagine a lot of that stuff is now in the converter unless it softened it enough so it's not a chunk. Who knows... Time will tell. Maybe what I should do in future is disconnect the cat's when doing this treatment and see what comes out of the manifolds. Would be interesting and it would safeguard the converter during the process. Hmmmmmm I've seen enough now that I wouldn't buy a direct injection where there is only one set of injectors. I would only buy a dual setup. I really think my daily driver is going to be a classic car in future because it's easier to work on and I can just keep swapping out the engine/transmissions as needed with the miles I accumulate and really fuel economy hasn't improved that much over the decades other than at cold starts with fuel injection versus carb.

Of you could buy a BMW I6 and just blast the intake every 120k miles ! lol. I know this is OT, but with all the hoops manufacturers are going though to meet mpgs/emissions while increasing power I'm on the verge of giving up and leasing an EV.

 

[StevieC]

Because I'm mechanically inclined if I could get an EV with enough range for the miles I might do in a day I would give up my gas engine no problem. I need 1,000km (600 mile) range to cope with cold weather range reduction and for extended periods away from a charger when travelling to remote parts of my home province to visit customers.

 

[Kjmack]

That product you used is a good product . It's does not break the carbon off , it slowly melts it away . Which I would think it would pass through converter . When I did my Jetta a few months ago the crud that was in my oil was pretty bad . I sucked a quart out into a clear bucket to check it out . I know you Aunt isn't close but when it warms up I would do the whole process again . I hope your father is doing ok , I know it's a hard time for your family . Lost my father a couple weeks ago from similar disease .

 

[zorobabel]

I thought they also ate coils?

 

[Kjmack]

Originally Posted by zorobabel

I thought they also ate coils?

Yeah 50k is about it on those also . Plugs and coils are very simple to change out on newer vw engine's , and no aftermarket plugs and coils !

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by Kjmack

That product you used is a good product . It's does not break the carbon off , it know slowly melts it away . Which I would think it would pass through converter . When I did my Jetta a few months ago the crud that was in my oil was pretty bad . I sucked a quart out into a clear bucket to check it out . I know you Aunt isn't close but when it warms up I would do the whole process again . I hope your father is doing ok , I know it's a hard time for your family . Lost my father a couple weeks ago from similar disease .

Thanks... I will ask her if she is willing to do it again when I see her next and I will change the oil since we are at it. Thanks for the well wishes as well. He's stable for the moment but it is getting him slowly.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by Kjmack

Originally Posted by zorobabel

I thought they also ate coils?

Yeah 50k is about it on those also . Plugs and coils are very simple to change out on newer vw engine's , and no aftermarket plugs and coils !

I generally leave coils alone that are functioning unless the boots are showing signs of wear/cracking or spark tracking/leakage. I'll do the plugs and change the coils if they look like an issue.

 

[wemay]

Great job! I agree on changing the plugs sooner rather than later as well.

 

[StevieC]

Update: My aunt couldn't return this weekend so we will get together again in a couple weeks to put on the catch can, change the spark plugs (inspect coils), do another TGDI Cleaning using the CRC product and I will check the revision on her PCV system. (Apparently there are numerous revisions, she has had it replaced under warranty once already)

 

[benjy]

todays vehicles are a crap shoot with too much unproven technology, read where the fancy displays route everything electrically thru them + a failure could cost as much as a tranny!! i like VW's 200,000 on my traded 01 jetta 1.8T a great car, got a similar ride 1.8T audi TT with low miles, just port injection for me please. besides DI are the crappy CVT's + all the other gadgets that fail sooner or usually later when warranty is gone. they are getting worse all the time IMO, so i keep my older simpler rides! at least VW has a great bumper to bumper 6 yr 60,000 warranty so replacing any car before the warranty dies is good but $$$$$, just like the manufacturers want $$$$$$$