VW: small group of engineers did it

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: Olas
Whatever the actual, measured emissions are when not running in 'cheat mode', they still emit less than the V8 that the American market is so fond of,


Emissions standards don't take account of the displacement of the engine, or number of cylinders. If the VW was non-compliant, it means it was emitting more NOx PER MILE than a compliant vehicle, whether the compliant vehicle has a 3-cylinder, V8, V10, V12, or Mr. Fusion.

Reading further, I see your references to a "road draft tube" and conclude you really don't ahve a clue about emissions. Road-draft tubes contribute so much to vehicle emissions (specifically smog-forming un-burned hydrocarbons and CO) that they were among the first things banned when emission controls began.

 

[KrisZ]

This story reminds me on an incident we had at my work. The very first engine, of the new engine line family was being assembled and getting ready for test. Of course the execs could not miss this PR and picture opportunity, so they were all on the assembly floor looking at the final assembly stage.
The technician flagged one of the components as not meeting the requirements and that the assembly and the subsequent test could not be completed until the good part arrives. Since the execs wanted the test to happen they told the technician to "make it work" or he's fired.

So the poor technician did as he was told. During the test the engine, that costs several million dollars, was ruined because of that make shift fix. Guess who got fired? The poor slob that did as he was told.

Moral of the story. Do not believe anything that comes out of management's mouth. Especially when it's on TV.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted By: Olas
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
I had the same vaccum pump arrangement. Got tired of smelling my crankcase gases after about 5 seconds, and piped it into my exhaust. It's where those gases eventually go anyway.


I've been meaning to get round to an exhaust evac. system, just hasn't quite happened yet. Do you have some knd of relief valve to prevent too much depression? I'm worried about sucking seals in with just a sealed line to the collector..


You'd really have to go out of your way to design a system to pull down the crank pressure that hard. As long as you have a good sized breather for fresh air to the crankcase, you'll be fine. Obviously you will want to make sure that the air entering the crankcase is filtered very well.

I've honestly been amazed by just how much condensation can build in an engine. Road drafts and open breather are definitely off my list.

 

[Olas]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Originally Posted By: Olas
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
I had the same vaccum pump arrangement. Got tired of smelling my crankcase gases after about 5 seconds, and piped it into my exhaust. It's where those gases eventually go anyway.


I've been meaning to get round to an exhaust evac. system, just hasn't quite happened yet. Do you have some knd of relief valve to prevent too much depression? I'm worried about sucking seals in with just a sealed line to the collector..


You'd really have to go out of your way to design a system to pull down the crank pressure that hard. As long as you have a good sized breather for fresh air to the crankcase, you'll be fine. Obviously you will want to make sure that the air entering the crankcase is filtered very well.

I've honestly been amazed by just how much condensation can build in an engine. Road drafts and open breather are definitely off my list.


Agreed on the condensation, I always try not to start the car unless I know I can drive far enough to get everything hot.

This particular engine never had a PCV or fresh air inlet, only a fixed orifice from the valve cover. I could look for a vented filler cap as a solution but the fill cap and fixed orifice are in close proximity and not separated by anything so I imagine only the valve cover would be ventilated and the air in the block would be relatively unaffected.

 

[GiveMeAVowel]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
This story reminds me on an incident we had at my work. The very first engine, of the new engine line family was being assembled and getting ready for test. Of course the execs could not miss this PR and picture opportunity, so they were all on the assembly floor looking at the final assembly stage.
The technician flagged one of the components as not meeting the requirements and that the assembly and the subsequent test could not be completed until the good part arrives. Since the execs wanted the test to happen they told the technician to "make it work" or he's fired.

So the poor technician did as he was told. During the test the engine, that costs several million dollars, was ruined because of that make shift fix. Guess who got fired? The poor slob that did as he was told.

Moral of the story. Do not believe anything that comes out of management's mouth. Especially when it's on TV.


100% TRUTH. Today very few brass tacks in executive manglement have ANY honor or integrity. The individuals that do are the RARE
exception.

 

[VNTS]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: pottymouth
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Bring forth the scapegoats....

Someone had to approve this...and it wasn't those engineers.


Agreed, but that someone could not have accomplished the deception without the complicity of the engineers and others.



Oh, I have no doubt that engineers did the dirty deed. Managers couldn't figure out what to cheat on, much less how to do it. And its possible for engineers to do something like this without management figuring it out... but here's the thing: engineers, by and large, WILL NOT do things like that UNLESS they've been put in a 'no way out' situation by incompetent management.

Does that forgive them? No, they should have found other employment under managers who understood the art of the possible and how it correlates to the budget provided... but that's awful easy to say and much harder to do when you're trying to support a family. But the point is: even if the engineers came up with the idea on their own, management should be held accountable for tasking them to do the impossible and putting them in a situation where cheat or quit were the only available choices.

It really steams my shorts to see management talking about a problem being 'confined to a small group of engineers' and implying that there's no management culpability at all...



You can bet your behind said Engineers left a string of e-mails and copies indicating they were told do it.

Also Wolfgang Bernhard had told VW higher ups they could not meet US emission and recommended the Bluetec Mercedes approach back in 05 so it isnt like VW head honchos were unaware.

I hope EPA nails VW with billions in fines to make an example of these cheats!

 

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted By: Olas


Agreed on the condensation, I always try not to start the car unless I know I can drive far enough to get everything hot.

This particular engine never had a PCV or fresh air inlet, only a fixed orifice from the valve cover. I could look for a vented filler cap as a solution but the fill cap and fixed orifice are in close proximity and not separated by anything so I imagine only the valve cover would be ventilated and the air in the block would be relatively unaffected.


Two important things to remember:

1. If you have a halfway decent vacuum pump, you'll be able to hook up a garden hose as an inlet for air, and it will still suck through every opening available.

2. Anywhere the air is entering the crankcase must be filtered as well as the engine air intake.

My vacuum setups, using Mustang Cobra emissions pumps are powerful enough that the oil cap will get sucked into place if you get it close enough. The dipstick makes a distinctive "pop" when it is removed. However, don't do what I do. Power down the pump before removing dipstick or oil cap. Never know what she'll suck in while the engine is wide open.

My Caprice was most affected by my arrangement. I haven't seen a drop of oil outside of the engine since I installed it. I get 9" of vacuum, even at redline. I'm in the process of making one for my Rams, so they're not spitting that stuff straight at the turbo, like OEM has it.

It's not only better for the environment, but smells alot better. I discovered the hard way that RT5 stinks like a beast when running a vacuum pump vented to the atmosphere.

 

[Joel_MD]

I think they should make a movie out of this, and Chris Rock should play the lead engineer!

 

[pandus13]

Originally Posted By: Joel_MD
I think they should make a movie out of this, and Chris Rock should play the lead engineer!

and He moest talkenzie Benny Hill Germanzy talky

 

[Tosh]

Immediately (days) after the EPA report of cheating in Sep 2015, Bosch put their hands up and said that a half-dozen years ago, they had warned VW NOT to use the Bosch cheating/testing software, which VW then conveniently forgot about until now. VW is to blame for using Bosch >testing< software in actual >production.<