VW CC Factory Fill

[ARMY_Guy]

Hello Bitog.

Buddy picked up 2009 VW Turbo.
After odometer hit 2,800 miles, he called the tech to do an OC.
VW Tech was persistant on denying owners request.
Said he'd have to sign a waiver for warranty purposes to dump FF.

I was under the assumption FF should be discarded after 2,000mi.+
Question: Why do we dump Factory Fill's early anyway?

What say you?
Thanks BITOG.

-A

 

[Johnny]

Because we are obsessed.

 

[Eddie]

We often think we are smarter than the factory engineers-Dah. Difficult to go wrong if you follow the factory recomendations. I prefer to follow the owner manual in most cases.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Eddie
We often think we are smarter than the factory engineers

Pretty much.

Or, we are convinced that the manufacturer is cutting corners here to save money at the expense of the ultimate lifespan of the vehicle, and this is something we can easily do to reverse that decision.



Old wisdom says that the factory fill has lots of fairly large particles -- metal shavings and stuff from the engine breaking in. You'd want to drain those out so they don't cause excess wear.

In theory, if the manufacturer recommends differently, it's because either they've already accounted for the worst of it at the factory, or the break-in process is different on newer engines.

AFAIK, if the alloys in the engine are harder and better machined, they might break in more gradually and not produce as many shavings in the process.

 

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Eddie
We often think we are smarter than the factory engineers


Old wisdom says that the factory fill has lots of fairly large particles -- metal shavings and stuff from the engine breaking in. You'd want to drain those out so they don't cause excess wear.



That is my reason for an early dump in all my vehicles. I changed my daughter's car and my wife's suv, both at 500 miles.

In my new motorcycle, right off the showroom floor, I changed it at 50 miles.

Incidentely, those three oil changes had an ton of metal flakes in the oil (tested with both a magnet and a light to show the reflection of the metal flakes).

I'm not telling anyone what to do, but if it were me, I would purchase a filter from the dealer, exactly like the one on the car and change the oil myself in the early miles if they are going to be that picky. Besides, I don't let dealers touch my personal cars unless it is a warranty item. One cross treaded oil plug (which they denied doing), 11 years ago cured me of letting those jokers touch my vehicles.

 

[ViragoBry]

Agreed. If they are stupid enough to refuse the revenue from something as routine and simple as an oil change, go buy a VW oil filter and crawl under that new car (a beautiful car, BTW..congrats) and change it yourself. There's no reason VW even needs to know you did it.

I can't fathom a reason why anyone would force you to keep the FF in for a specified amount of time. I think there is enough info on this board to debunk any myth of 'break in oil' being present in your pan. There is no such thing. So, why continue to circulate oil that surely has (at a minimum) finely ground metal dust in it. Shavings of any size are caught in the filter, but metal particles can be microscopic in size, pass right through the filter and act as an abrasive to bearing materials. Dump it.

 

[bretfraz]

I'd like to know why the VW tech insisted on keeping the OE fill. What does he know that others don't? Gotta be something otherwise he wouldn't have threatened with the warranty exclusion.

These motors are not build out behind the factory next to the garbage dumpster. They're built in super clean facilities so the chance of some "junk" getting into the engine during assembly is almost zero.

As for metal particles, that's a bit of a myth, too. The larger particles that could damage an engine are going to be trapped by the oil filter. Anything smaller isn't going to be large enough to worry about. Besides, if you read the UOA section carefully you will see numerous reports of engines still generating metal particles well past a normal break in. You don't hear of engines blowing up due to this issue, do you?

I'd do some research at VW and Audi forums to get some inside scoop. Your buddy probably is not the first person to be told to maintain the factory fill.

 

[Newtonville]

The oil filter, as has been said, allows some particles to pass through, and there are more of them in FF. Some of them may be cast iron which is harder than bearing material and will so will scratch it. I like to use examples of sandpaper, 600 grit is about 15 micron. Take a look at the grains in 600 grit and apply that to the bearings. You can treat your car better than the maker requires for warranty, as far as I know.

 

[Audi Junkie]

5k on FF should be no probs. Be shure to refill with a good oil.

 

[saaber1]

Comparison of 08' vw 2.0 turbo FSI FF oil at 1100 and 5000 miles:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1263726

Your buddys 2.0 TSI might be a little different but not by much I would bet. I believe most of the silicon, iron etc. are already in the oil when the guy picked up the car. My car had over 11 hours of running time with only 12 miles on the odometer.

P.S. I would suggest telling your buddy to avoid that dealer like the plague. Do maintenance himself or good indy shop. Document all maintenance. There are some really idiotic service departments out there. Your buddy found one! Ignore that "free" vw maintenance thing. That dealer probably will use the wrong oil and who knows what else. Sometimes "free" is not worth the price!

 

[rshaw125]

The factory filter may not be the same as the filter you can buy from the dealer. Fords are like that. The factory filter is plain white with some paint markings.

 

[saaber1]

Originally Posted By: Eddie
I prefer to follow the owner manual in most cases.


In this case the owner's manual's OCI recommendation may be heavily influenced by marketing. VW pays for maintenance for the first 36k miles so there is a built in incentive to do fewer oil changes. Also, like many manufacturers, they like to say how maintenance free their vehicles are because this helps sell more cars.

The reality is that no oil is able to go past 5k miles on these motors, we have proof of that on the 2.0 FSI anyway https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/23-uoas-database-for-audi-vw-2-0l-fsi-turbo.112541/ Note that the 09 is the 2.0 TSI which is different and there are not enough (any?) UOAs on the TSI yet to say it is exactly the same as FSI in terms of effect on oil. If I owned this car I definitely would not go beyond a 5k OCI on any oil.

IMO what is going on here is you have an ignorant tech who has probably been told by his ignorant manager who has been told by their ignorant owner to "just don't do ANYTHING outside of what the manual says".

For the car owner, it is much better to educate yourself and do the right thing for your car. Don't subjugate yourself to the stupidity of ignorant service techs. or the indifference of marketing-based owner's manuals when you have better information.

 

[mechtech2]

Who says the factory engineers say it's better to NOT change the oil earlier? Especially with some very long recommended first OCIs?
This is by far more of a corporate decision.

 

[d00df00d]

To those claiming this is "obviously" a matter of cost cutting: If you were not involved in making the decision, all you can do is speculate. What seems "obvious" to you is still just opinion.

Besides, given current realities, why should we be so eager to waste oil? Skepticism should be applied to both sides of this argument.

 

[d00df00d]

Also, has anyone considered that the factory fill might be a different oil that is not available at the dealership? Maybe the car runs something unique for the first 5,000 miles or so to facilitate break-in. That'd be a great reason not to dump it prematurely, and it would neatly explain the dealer's refusal to do so.

 

[StevieC]

I have always driven my cars 500 KM (300 Miles) on the FF, then dumped it and put in fresh Dino and driven that to 1000 KM (600 Miles) then dumped that then put in fresh Dino and driven for 4-5K KM (2500-3000 Miles). Then I would dump that and use a high quality Synthetic.

I have never had an engine use a drop of oil until they get to 300+ K KM (180+ K Miles) I have never had an engine fail because of anything oil related either!

 

[Max_Wander]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Also, has anyone considered that the factory fill might be a different oil that is not available at the dealership?


Yes. And the answer was no.