Originally Posted By: javacontour
Originally Posted By: cousincletus
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Originally Posted By: cousincletus
I also noticed that none of the import shills give the US automakers any benefit of the doubt in any case whatsoever. It's always comparing the Chevy assembled in Korea with the Honda assembled in Alabama. Look at the total # of jobs. All the foreign transplants combined employ less Americans than GM by itself. What about the Chevy assembled in Michigan with 90% US parts?
So what you are saying is that it's OK for you to name call, put others down, etc, and then complain about others that do that.
Originally Posted By: cousins
BTW my issue isn't with people who buy imports in and of itself, but those who justify their purchase by putting someone else down for their decision not to send their money overseas.
Obviously, such behavior really can't be a problem with you since you engage in it during almost every topic like this.
I just wanted to point out your hypocrisy. You call OTHERS names, but complain if anyone else does.
Calling someone else a SHILL is putting them down.
I think such behavior is AGAINST the TOS here, but you seem to get away with it time and time again.
Name calling really will do little to win folks to your argument. In fact, for folks like me, it leads me to believe you are trying to shame folks to your side, or bully them, instead of using reason and logic.
It doesn't take much reason, logic or thought to call someone who disagrees with you a shill.
Sometimes you have good points, but you lose any ground when you engage in the name calling and double standard behavior you've demonstrated here.
Hey, I didn't start it.
Come on, my 10 year old daughter knows better that to try that argument. An adult should know that doesn't fly.
And look up the definition of shill.
Shill, a person who poses as a customer in order to decoy others into participating, as at a gambling house, auction, confidence game, etc.
That's the number one definition. So it's basically name calling. Instead of addressing their arugment, you perform a character assault. Trying to paint them in this light, that what they are doing is some sort of evil plot.
If you disagree, fine, address the points. But your argument is lost when you complain about them attacking, etc, and then do the same.
Originally Posted By: cousincletus
I think it pretty much describes their behavior, esp. when the import brands all have problems of their own they they don't want to admit. They're also quick to say "American cars are junk", etc.
I can't speak for others. I can only speak for myself and I know I've had far fewer problems with my 3 Toyota's, two now with over 200K miles than I've had with all the GM's, Fords, Chryslers and VW's I've owned. I also had pretty good luck with my one Mazda and one Honda I've owned as well. But I didn't have them as long and for as many miles, so I don't say much.
The thing is, until recently, your odds of having to repair a Toyota were far less than having to repair your typical GM, Ford, Chrysler, etc.
Notice, it's clear that I'm NOT saying they don't need repairs. What I've said and what most studies have shown is they will need fewer repairs as a population than their competition.
For folks who value that, it's an important measure.
For those who want a Corvette or Dodge Viper, or Mustang, they are not going to value that.
I've been pretty clear about my experience with GM, and it doesn't compare well to Toyota.
I've been pretty clear that it's harder to win customers back that were lost to past bad experiences.
Folks can SAY anything, that the cars are better, etc. But a lost customer is the hardest one to win back.
And if all those who want to support GM have to offer is name calling and character assaults on those who have walked away from GM, then it's no wonder GM has fallen.
Why would I even consider to buy something that in the past has let me down, and it's supporters think I'm some sort of traitor for buying.
Like I've said, GM loses money on each car it sells right now. The most patriotic thing I can do is NOT to buy a car, because they'll lose money on that sale as well.
Buy domestic?
Finally, it's a subtle point, but I think it's important. Unless you own a dealership, you are not buying a car from GM, or Ford or any carmaker. You buy your car from the dealership. So any car on a dealers lot is ALREADY imported once the dealership has it in inventory.
So your complaint really isn't with those who buy the cars from the dealerships, but the dealerships themselves. They are the ones who actually buy the cars from the car maker.
So unless anyone is buying from an overseas dealership, the purchase of ANY car is supporting America. We are buying a product from a US business.
They may get their product overseas, or from a multi-national company.
Finally, we need to be careful about the whole buy American thing. Why? Because if the world adopted the same line of thinking, folks would stop buying Fords, Opals, Vauxhalls and Holdens in other countries because they don't want to send their hard earned money back to the USA.
Right now, that may be the only money helping these carmakers stay in the game.
So in the long run, protectionism is bad, not good. It may be even worse in the short term, if adopted by those who buy GM and Ford overseas.
Therefore, the last thing we should do is become protectionist when it comes to cars. [/quote]
Yep, protectionism is bad, that's why we owe trillions of dollars to the chinese, due to that failed logic.
) and not building anything I'd want (where is the American Station Wagon like a Subaru Outback?) 
