Volvo or lexus?

[oggb]

Volvo has more interesting interiors, in my opinion, but after seeing what my co-worker went through with his daughter's S60 (he estimates $5,000 in repairs between 60k and 100k miles, sludged engine despite 5w-30 synthetic and 5k OCI) and his S40 (cupping front tires, replacing rear tires every 10-15k, sludged engine at 30k despite 5w-30 synthetic and 5k OCI) I'd definitely not own one.

Fun to drive? Reliable? Rides OK? Have you considered a Honda Fit. Handles well, rides OK, very reliable.

 

[simple_gifts]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
You can't beat Japanese engineering...



Unless of course you are German. Then you can't beat the Japanese copying your engineering

Yes, but the copying also comes with Japanese quality, a trait missing on most German cars... 8)

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
You can't beat Japanese engineering...



Unless of course you are German. Then you can't beat the Japanese copying your engineering

Yes, but the copying also comes with Japanese quality, a trait missing on most German cars... 8)


I don't think the German marques lack quality. They over-complicate. Those are mutually exclusive traits.

They also tend to develop a lot of the technology and being on the bleeding edge means that some stuff ends up having issues.

 

[TTK]

Which one? It depends on what you value in a car. If your top priority is low maintenance and comfortable trouble free driving for 200K, probably Lexus. But, I wouldn't trade my Volvo for any comparable Lexus cars. Oh, wait, there aren't any

. I will say that the body of a Volvo seems more sturdy than any Japanese car I have seen, and I have owned many. The steering, handling and ride of European cars is just different than Japanese. Lexus is a fine car, but I prefer the European "feel" when driving. Perhaps not totally objective opinion.

 

[OtisBlkR1]

I have to admit that my 2007 3.0 Honda Accord EX is a pretty nice automobile, I recently had a "head to head" with my friends 2005 4cyln 300 series BMW v.s. my 07 accord thought provoking.. side by side looking at the options, refinements, fit and finish, then the test drive.. it was a dead heat between those two auto's (other than my Accord completely smoked him in a 0-60 & 0-100 drag race) Even in course driving we both felt both cars were fairly equal in cornering performance and ride quality. Other than "status" and the fact that i prefer his front clip and dash to mine, i feel i have the better automobile for less coin.. of course this is just my opinion, our little side by side we did just goes to show you cant always judge a car by the manufacturer

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
You can't beat Japanese engineering...



Unless of course you are German. Then you can't beat the Japanese copying your engineering

Soooooooooo.......what exactly did Lexus copy with the original LS400?

The Germans had to rush new designs when the LS400 started gobbling up their sales.

The cost overruns to get the new S-class to market to compete with the Lexus cost Daimler Benz's Chief Engineer his job. BMW had to rush the M60 V8 out early.

For a "copy", the LS sure made Daimler Benz and Bayerische Moteren Werke scramble about quite a bit.

But to be fair, Cadillac didn't even try. GM engineers said that they couldn't build a car like the LS400. I don't know what Lincoln engineers said. Chrysler had already messed up the hallowed Imperial nameplate by dolling up a Dodge Dynasty and calling it an Imperial. Dynasty is an okay car but it should never be an Imperial.

 

[TTK]

Rather than editing my previous post, for some reason I did not pick up on the fact that you are looking at a used car. My word of advice is to never buy a used Volvo unless you can document that it has had all of it services done by a Volvo dealer throughout its previous life.

 

[artificialist]

I would vote Lexus because I find that they have fewer problems, and when they do need a repair, the new part is cheaper and easier to find than the same part for the Volvo.

 

[TTK]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
You can't beat Japanese engineering...



Unless of course you are German. Then you can't beat the Japanese copying your engineering

Soooooooooo.......what exactly did Lexus copy with the original LS400?

The Germans had to rush new designs when the LS400 started gobbling up their sales.

The cost overruns to get the new S-class to market to compete with the Lexus cost Daimler Benz's Chief Engineer his job. BMW had to rush the M60 V8 out early.

For a "copy", the LS sure made Daimler Benz and Bayerische Moteren Werke scramble about quite a bit.

But to be fair, Cadillac didn't even try. GM engineers said that they couldn't build a car like the LS400. I don't know what Lincoln engineers said. Chrysler had already messed up the hallowed Imperial nameplate by dolling up a Dodge Dynasty and calling it an Imperial. Dynasty is an okay car but it should never be an Imperial.

Exactly what was in the LS400 that GM could not duplicate? Any references for that statement? Perhaps they could not build it at the same price?

 

[TTK]

Originally Posted By: artificialist
I would vote Lexus because I find that they have fewer problems, and when they do need a repair, the new part is cheaper and easier to find than the same part for the Volvo.


That's true. I saw a Lexus engine being replaced and the new one has a Toyoya valve cover on it, Of course, they transferred the Lexus cover to the new engine. This was by the dealer

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: OtisBlkR1
I recently had a "head to head" with my friends 2005 4cyln 300 series BMW

There was no 4-cyl 3-series in 2005.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
You can't beat Japanese engineering...



Unless of course you are German. Then you can't beat the Japanese copying your engineering

Soooooooooo.......what exactly did Lexus copy with the original LS400?

The Germans had to rush new designs when the LS400 started gobbling up their sales.

The cost overruns to get the new S-class to market to compete with the Lexus cost Daimler Benz's Chief Engineer his job. BMW had to rush the M60 V8 out early.

For a "copy", the LS sure made Daimler Benz and Bayerische Moteren Werke scramble about quite a bit.

But to be fair, Cadillac didn't even try. GM engineers said that they couldn't build a car like the LS400. I don't know what Lincoln engineers said. Chrysler had already messed up the hallowed Imperial nameplate by dolling up a Dodge Dynasty and calling it an Imperial. Dynasty is an okay car but it should never be an Imperial.

Lincoln had the Mark VIII, which had a 280HP 4.6L. I'm not going to delve into comparing other traits, but the Modular has shown to be a world-class engine, so I don't think we need to focus on that.

I have no experience with the LS400. But I did quickly read the Wiki page on it and saw claims that BMW was complaining that Toyota was selling the car below cost. If one thinks they can get into a car that competes head-to-head with a Benz or Bimmer at a greatly reduced cost, of course it is going to cut heavily into the sales of those marques. I don't think that's a surprise.

My point was more in respect to things like electronic fuel injection (Bosch), airbags, satellite navigation, HID lighting, direct injection....etc. Technologies that the Germans were first to bring to market. Sometimes that worked out well. Other times it didn't.

 

[Chris Meutsch]

Originally Posted By: TTK
Which one? It depends on what you value in a car. If your top priority is low maintenance and comfortable trouble free driving for 200K, probably Lexus. But, I wouldn't trade my Volvo for any comparable Lexus cars. Oh, wait, there aren't any

. I will say that the body of a Volvo seems more sturdy than any Japanese car I have seen, and I have owned many. The steering, handling and ride of European cars is just different than Japanese. Lexus is a fine car, but I prefer the European "feel" when driving. Perhaps not totally objective opinion.


As someone who has driven both spectrums, I agree with this post 100%.

Volvo seats cannot be beat and I'm a Japanese-vehicle honk. There is no argument in my opinion on this point. With your mileage requirements on a yearly basis, this is the choice.

Money into repairs on an older Euro car? Lexus wins.

I'd lean Lexus but if you want the Volvo, vett it completely. Learn about it's history and don't just buy one on the lot because the paint is flawless.

Pablo can speak more on Volvo. The only experience I have is a 2000 hardtop C70 that ran perfectly without leaks (but with a couple warranty-covered issues) in 2012 when sold after my father in law passed.

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog

Soooooooooo.......what exactly did Lexus copy with the original LS400?



This...

Sure, the LS400 was more modern, but the W126 platform came out in 1979. I think Lexus definitely used it as a benchmark, and they certainly didn't stray too far from the styling, right down to two tone rockers.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL


Lincoln had the Mark VIII, which had a 280HP 4.6L. I'm not going to delve into comparing other traits, but the Modular has shown to be a world-class engine, so I don't think we need to focus on that.

I have no experience with the LS400. But I did quickly read the Wiki page on it and saw claims that BMW was complaining that Toyota was selling the car below cost. If one thinks they can get into a car that competes head-to-head with a Benz or Bimmer at a greatly reduced cost, of course it is going to cut heavily into the sales of those marques. I don't think that's a surprise.

My point was more in respect to things like electronic fuel injection (Bosch), airbags, satellite navigation, HID lighting, direct injection....etc. Technologies that the Germans were first to bring to market. Sometimes that worked out well. Other times it didn't.


Fair enough.

Only problem is that the Hyundai Equus isn't exactly selling as well as the LS did. I remember seeing the then new Lexus everywhere. I've seen one Equus...with dealer tags.
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Originally Posted By: Spazdog

Soooooooooo.......what exactly did Lexus copy with the original LS400?



This...

Sure, the LS400 was more modern, but the W126 platform came out in 1979. I think Lexus definitely used it as a benchmark, and they certainly didn't stray too far from the styling, right down to two tone rockers.


The Chief Engineer at Daimler Benz was Wolfgang Peter. (I had to look it up)
He arguably got canned because of the Lexus.

 

[01rangerxl]

I don't doubt the LS400 ruffled some feathers and caused a lot of headaches for the Germans, but I also think Lexus heavily benchmarked the W126. The designs are uncannily similar, even utilizing similar wheels. You can tell what Lexus wanted people to associate the LS400 with at first glance.

 

[Vikas]

Are people forgetting that he is looking to purchase 7-11 year old car? Does that change your answer?

 

[OtisBlkR1]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: OtisBlkR1
I recently had a "head to head" with my friends 2005 4cyln 300 series BMW

There was no 4-cyl 3-series in 2005.

Im going to have to call him, whats the 4cyl 5 spd 05 BMW ? I may not have my numbers straight.. i thought it was a 325i

2.5 ltr I-6, my bad, he told me it was a 2."something" and i assumed it was a four banger.. my bad, so he has a 6! yikes, I ate that car up with a bone stock 3.0 Accord,

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: OtisBlkR1
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: OtisBlkR1
I recently had a "head to head" with my friends 2005 4cyln 300 series BMW

There was no 4-cyl 3-series in 2005.

Im going to have to call him, whats the 4cyl 5 spd 05 BMW ? I may not have my numbers straight.. i thought it was a 325i

325i is a 2.5 liter inline 6. There was no 4cyl bmw offered in the US in 2005.

 

[OtisBlkR1]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: OtisBlkR1
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: OtisBlkR1
I recently had a "head to head" with my friends 2005 4cyln 300 series BMW

There was no 4-cyl 3-series in 2005.

Im going to have to call him, whats the 4cyl 5 spd 05 BMW ? I may not have my numbers straight.. i thought it was a 325i

325i is a 2.5 liter inline 6. There was no 4cyl bmw offered in the US in 2005.

yep, your right, just figured that out.. sheesh, i wasnt so (unimpressed) with thinking it was a 4 banger, but a 6 cyln.. now im going to have to give him a hard time.. His car still wins hands down in the style department thought !