Volkswagon Has A Clue

PimTac said:
I was under the impression that VW was ahead of most when it came to non-animal skin seating as Autogefühl states it?

On the flip side of that, it would be a waste to not use the animal hides for something. That is just good practice.

As for the blind spot indicators in the mirrors, the HUD is the better place for them IMO. I have that in the CX5. The HUD is my first glance before doing a lane change and that is easier since it is in my direct site view. I thought the mirror indicators were mandated by regulation?
Click to expand...
MB, VW and BMW all have their "spin" on leather alternatives (as does Ford, in the Mach-e which they amusingly called ActiveX). However, BMW is clearly aware that people want leather, so it's standard on their higher priced vehicles like the X5. It's optional on the GLE Mercedes and while my e-tron had leather, I had foolishly not checked to see that it in fact had the Luxury package, which is the extended leather option that I would have been much happier with (leather dash, suede door panels...etc).

The leather alternatives are durable and they look decent enough but they definitely aren't leather. They don't have the feel, they don't break-in like leather does, they don't have those natural wrinkles that leather develops...etc. Of course the thick leather like the Laguna in my Jeep or what was in my M5 also has the smell as well (which you don't get with the thin, less expensive coated leathers).

The luxury marques know that leather is a desirable upscale option, which is why they offer it, often at a premium, and people will pay for it. My dad was turned off from an ML350 years ago because it had MBTex, if he was spending that money, he wanted leather seats. They didn't have one with the leather option in stock and so he never pursued it further. They lost a sale that day not having one, as if it had the leather seats, he would have bought it.
 
I imagine Tesla has lost sales due to their "vegan leather" interiors, aka naugahide, aka plastic, etc.
These cars are different; they have no desire to be like other cars. Supposedly Tesla is staying true to its "focus on sustainability".
Is it the best way to go? Who the heck knows?
I think our '18 Model 3 has a leather wrapped steering wheel but they stopped that in 2019 if I am not mistaken.
Clearly these care are not for everyone, for a myriad of reasons.

Hey, I wonder if our new Lexus RX450h F-Sport has NuLuxe of leather or?
Our '06 TSX has leather and it is still in pretty good shape. I condition it every 100 years or so...
 
OVERKILL said:
MB, VW and BMW all have their "spin" on leather alternatives (as does Ford, in the Mach-e which they amusingly called ActiveX). However, BMW is clearly aware that people want leather, so it's standard on their higher priced vehicles like the X5. It's optional on the GLE Mercedes and while my e-tron had leather, I had foolishly not checked to see that it in fact had the Luxury package, which is the extended leather option that I would have been much happier with (leather dash, suede door panels...etc).

The leather alternatives are durable and they look decent enough but they definitely aren't leather. They don't have the feel, they don't break-in like leather does, they don't have those natural wrinkles that leather develops...etc. Of course the thick leather like the Laguna in my Jeep or what was in my M5 also has the smell as well (which you don't get with the thin, less expensive coated leathers).

The luxury marques know that leather is a desirable upscale option, which is why they offer it, often at a premium, and people will pay for it. My dad was turned off from an ML350 years ago because it had MBTex, if he was spending that money, he wanted leather seats. They didn't have one with the leather option in stock and so he never pursued it further. They lost a sale that day not having one, as if it had the leather seats, he would have bought it.
Click to expand...


I prefer leather to the alternatives. It’s a natural product and readily available.
 
JeffKeryk said:
I am a huge fan of the futuristic, minimalist interior, vegan leather, etc. Teslas need HUD and BSM on the outside mirrors.
Gonna hafta write Elon a nasty email.
Click to expand...

Hmm, if they use vegan leather they moved up a notch in my book.

PimTac said:
I was under the impression that VW was ahead of most when it came to non-animal skin seating as Autogefühl states it?
Click to expand...

I think they are, however vegan leather may be suffering availability issues, I noticed the website now has a line through for instance "Leatherette wrapped steering wheel" on the TAOS, thought the ones i saw on the lot had them.

There are some of these that are very good, MB Tex is one, I bet a lot of folks would not know the difference if you did not tell them.
 
JeffKeryk said:
That's exactly my point. Tesla is much more efficient, agile and better managed.
And has financial might far beyond any other car maker.
Click to expand...
No, it does not. Market value does not equate to financial might. Would Tesla survive $50 bln scandal and move on? It would on your and my dime.
 
I recognize that some of the luxury marques like Audi and Porsche make EV's that seem nicer than the Tesla's. And they also cost $$$$$$. In 2026, when the EV market really explodes it will be because the best sellers will be in the sub-$40k class or about where a Camry sells for, with considerable market share in the sub $30k class. Porsche, Audi, Lexus, BMW et al won't play in that market but will sell EV's to those who aren't price conscious, lease their vehicles or have a company car allowance. Much the way those cars are sold now.

I also predict that by 2026 we will see the interiors and controls more resembling traditional and time tested and consumer familiar designs, and getting away from the idea that they need to be "different" or dazzling. Enough with the 20 inch screens already.Tesla needs to reassign their designers who think having an arcade game layout is cool and put some people to work who are automotive enthusiasts. Sure, there are people who think FSD is great and even like the idea that they will never own a vehicle but can call up a driverless car when they need to go somewhere, but I think Tesla is underestimating the customer that actually likes the experience of driving and appreciates a cabin that is high tech but also rather traditional because that is what works.

Like Mr. Keryk mentions, having the BSM display on the center screen is a flaw and shows a lack of comprehension by the designers as does the lack of an HUD.
 
edyvw said:
No, it does not. Market value does not equate to financial might. Would Tesla survive $50 bln scandal and move on? It would on your and my dime.
Click to expand...
I thought Tesla had tons of debt?
 
DwightFrye said:
I recognize that some of the luxury marques like Audi and Porsche make EV's that seem nicer than the Tesla's. And they also cost $$$$$$. In 2026, when the EV market really explodes it will be because the best sellers will be in the sub-$40k class or about where a Camry sells for, with considerable market share in the sub $30k class. Porsche, Audi, Lexus, BMW et al won't play in that market but will sell EV's to those who aren't price conscious, lease their vehicles or have a company car allowance. Much the way those cars are sold now.

I also predict that by 2026 we will see the interiors and controls more resembling traditional and time tested and consumer familiar designs, and getting away from the idea that they need to be "different" or dazzling. Enough with the 20 inch screens already.Tesla needs to reassign their designers who think having an arcade game layout is cool and put some people to work who are automotive enthusiasts. Sure, there are people who think FSD is great and even like the idea that they will never own a vehicle but can call up a driverless car when they need to go somewhere, but I think Tesla is underestimating the customer that actually likes the experience of driving and appreciates a cabin that is high tech but also rather traditional because that is what works.

Like Mr. Keryk mentions, having the BSM display on the center screen is a flaw and shows a lack of comprehension by the designers as does the lack of an HUD.
Click to expand...

Amusingly, the 2019 e-trons are actually a bargain right now. A lot of them still around that were demos, so you can pick one up for not much more than a Model Y.

Yes, the Taycan is a lot more expensive, even than the Model S, but isn't too far off from the Model X.

As you noted, these marques don't (yet) produce a Model 3 competitor, but if BMW comes out with a "3-series" EV, it would likely be targeted at that demographic.

Audi is already selling the Q4 e-tron:
https://www.audiusa.com/us/web/en/models/q4/q4-e-tron/2022/overview.html

Which hits right at the same price bracket as the standard Model Y (not Performance), but yes, it's slower, just like the e-tron I owned is slower than the Model Y.

It's a very interesting market to watch, that's for sure!
 
PimTac said:
Their debt picture has actually improved over the past couple of years. It used to be around 200:1 debt to equity. Now it is in the 30’s.
Click to expand...
I just read that too..thanks.
Just found one from June 2021 that said 45..
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

M
$10 Billion Down The Drain - The Cruise Is Sunk
2
Replies
34
Views
2K
t_bilt
M
The Tesla Strategy
3 4 5
Replies
89
Views
3K
4WD
Back
Top Bottom