Volkswagon Has A Clue

[ARCOgraphite]

And? They have the same warranty as all but a few outliers now. I used the warranty on my Atlas one time. What I had fixed would have been maybe $200 out of warranty.

People "here" rarely form their own opinions and prefer to parrot others' as their own. German cars = bad. Japanese cars = good.

Powertrain is worst in the industry at 4/50 - but I see that VW have a better than industry 4/50 bumper to bumper.
I also see my dealer has two TAOS S AWD under $27K. My wife is somewhat interested in that now that she is
unimpressed with the latest Subaru(s). - Ken

 

[SeaJay]

Amen. VW is doing some really great things right now. Ford too. IMO, in the not so distant future, all of those who are doubting how viable EVs are will be proven very wrong.

"All doubters in the not so distant future" - how distant is this future where all doubters will be proven to be very wrong?

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

I hear claims about California being 5th largest economy and take it with a pinch of salt. The GDP growth is negative. California cannot even supply its own water. It is also has state liabilities of $362.87 billion and net debt around $55 billion or almost $75,000 per taxpayer. Large companies are also moving their corporate headquarters to Texas a trend that seems to be accelerating. I wish you well, but don’t see a rosy picture for the power grid in particular what with the rolling blackouts, and that’s without electric cars.

Negative growth in GDP is irrelevant when everyone else is experiencing the same.
California can't supply its own water because the climate doesn't support it and what little support there is continues to dwindle.
All countries have huge liabilities. The difference between California and all US states vs sovereigns (i.e. US, UK etc) is that the states can't run deficits.
Texas has it's own issues (ex, water). Tech companies are moving their HQ from Calif to TX because there's no state capital gains tax. The majority of the wealth for Tech executives is in the form of stock options.

 

[edyvw]

$5 gas is a catalyst for moving out of California since most of that is tax. I paid $2.85 a gallon here in New Hampshire today. It is not as bad as London that is £2.68 per liter.

I am already doubting the viability of the power grid since California is having backouts akin to a third-world country. Gasoline in the UK costs four times what it does in the US and now they are having near riots and bringing in the army to deliver fuel. Despite that most cars there use gas. There is something a bit precious about claiming “history will show I was right” too. Jimmy Carter said the United States would be out of oil in the first decade of the 21st Century.

Negative growth in GDP is irrelevant when everyone else is experiencing the same.
California can't supply its own water because the climate doesn't support it and what little support there is continues to dwindle.
All countries have huge liabilities. The difference between California and all US states vs sovereigns (i.e. US, UK etc) is that the states can't run deficits.
Texas has it's own issues (ex, water). Tech companies are moving their HQ from Calif to TX because there's no state capital gains tax. The majority of the wealth for Tech executives is in the form of stock options.

CA: $1 to federal govt., return: $0.68.
TX: $1 to fed. Govt., return: $1.12
KY: $1 to fed. Govt., return: $2.25.
CO: $1 to fed. Govt., return $0.88.

Just few examples.

 

[edyvw]

I am already doubting the viability of the power grid since California is having backouts akin to a third-world country. Gasoline in the UK costs four times what it does in the US and now they are having near riots and bringing in the army to deliver fuel. Despite that most cars there use gas. There is something a bit precious about claiming “history will show I was right” too. Jimmy Carter said the United States would be out of oil in the first decade of the 21st Century.

 

[DwightFrye]

The question in my mind is will a 2026 Volkswagen EV be competitive with a 2026 Tesla, or will it be more competitive with a 2022 Tesla ?
The amount of capital required by not only Volkswagen but all other automakers to really produce viable and competitive EV's in the next few years may be insurmountable. Plus many of them will have a problem recruiting a talent pool of engineers. In the meantime Tesla has already spent the money out of the gate in the EV category and it is going to be difficult for others to catch up.

I'm still not interested in an EV and may not be for several more years. And as the other thread pointed out, the US power grid infrastructure may not be able to support extremely rapid growth in EV ownership. The politicians who are mandating EV production are not known for being deep thinkers but are known for being reactionary pinheads. So there will undoubtedly be unintended consequences in a forced move to EV's.

All of that said, I think it will be interesting to see which automaker gives Tesla a run for their money. It may be another newcomer rather than a legacy maker.

 

[edyvw]

The question in my mind is will a 2026 Volkswagen EV be competitive with a 2026 Tesla, or will it be more competitive with a 2022 Tesla ?
The amount of capital required by not only Volkswagen but all other automakers to really produce viable and competitive EV's in the next few years may be insurmountable. Plus many of them will have a problem recruiting a talent pool of engineers. In the meantime Tesla has already spent the money out of the gate in the EV category and it is going to be difficult for others to catch up.

I'm still not interested in an EV and may not be for several more years. And as the other thread pointed out, the US power grid infrastructure may not be able to support extremely rapid growth in EV ownership. The politicians who are mandating EV production are not known for being deep thinkers but are known for being reactionary pinheads. So there will undoubtedly be unintended consequences in a forced move to EV's.

All of that said, I think it will be interesting to see which automaker gives Tesla a run for their money. It may be another newcomer rather than a legacy maker.

I think it is wrong to think that VW will go the same path as Tesla. VW will develop their vehicles in their own cultural and traditional way. I would expect from them more practical vehicles and push for everyday use.
As for the pool of engineers, it is Germany, never underestimate their ability to produce enough engineers.

 

[Zee09]

Powertrain is worst in the industry at 4/50 - but I see that VW have a better than industry 4/50 bumper to bumper.
I also see my dealer has two TAOS S AWD under $27K. My wife is somewhat interested in that now that she is
unimpressed with the latest Subaru(s). - Ken

VW in Florida has that $500 test drive deal
Going in tomorrow for a Pass at spin. Hey $500 pays for a bunch of gas.

 

[OVERKILL]

The question in my mind is will a 2026 Volkswagen EV be competitive with a 2026 Tesla, or will it be more competitive with a 2022 Tesla ?
The amount of capital required by not only Volkswagen but all other automakers to really produce viable and competitive EV's in the next few years may be insurmountable. Plus many of them will have a problem recruiting a talent pool of engineers. In the meantime Tesla has already spent the money out of the gate in the EV category and it is going to be difficult for others to catch up.

I'm still not interested in an EV and may not be for several more years. And as the other thread pointed out, the US power grid infrastructure may not be able to support extremely rapid growth in EV ownership. The politicians who are mandating EV production are not known for being deep thinkers but are known for being reactionary pinheads. So there will undoubtedly be unintended consequences in a forced move to EV's.

All of that said, I think it will be interesting to see which automaker gives Tesla a run for their money. It may be another newcomer rather than a legacy maker.

If you haven't, I'd really recommend driving some of the EV's from other marques and comparing them to Tesla. I've posted on this before, but while Tesla definitely has some really neat tech, tech isn't the only thing that makes an EV. The Audi e-tron is an EXTREMELY nice EV, and feels more conventional. The Mach-e is also fantastic, but different from the Audi. There are some excellent efforts already being made, these companies aren't trying to produce a Tesla, they are producing electric versions of what they think their conventional demographic wants. The Taycan is another example, just an absolutely stunning car with high quality materials throughout.

 

[loneryder]

EU is not going to tell anything to VW without VW already having their hands in creating that mandate. I mean, I do not think you understand politics.
EU mandate will have a huge effect on the US. Same as other European mandates had. EU is 450 million people market. FCA is actually an Italian-American-French company. GM thought a lot of things do not influence them, and then guess what happened?

The German govt. is communist. They tend to be dictators not negotiaters.

 

[RooflessVW]

If you haven't, I'd really recommend driving some of the EV's from other marques and comparing them to Tesla. I've posted on this before, but while Tesla definitely has some really neat tech, tech isn't the only thing that makes an EV. The Audi e-tron is an EXTREMELY nice EV, and feels more conventional. The Mach-e is also fantastic, but different from the Audi. There are some excellent efforts already being made, these companies aren't trying to produce a Tesla, they are producing electric versions of what they think their conventional demographic wants. The Taycan is another example, just an absolutely stunning car with high quality materials throughout.

Excellent points.

The ID.4 is "worse" on paper than a Model 3 but I greatly preferred it.

 

[JeffKeryk]

The question in my mind is will a 2026 Volkswagen EV be competitive with a 2026 Tesla, or will it be more competitive with a 2022 Tesla ?
The amount of capital required by not only Volkswagen but all other automakers to really produce viable and competitive EV's in the next few years may be insurmountable. Plus many of them will have a problem recruiting a talent pool of engineers. In the meantime Tesla has already spent the money out of the gate in the EV category and it is going to be difficult for others to catch up.

I'm still not interested in an EV and may not be for several more years. And as the other thread pointed out, the US power grid infrastructure may not be able to support extremely rapid growth in EV ownership. The politicians who are mandating EV production are not known for being deep thinkers but are known for being reactionary pinheads. So there will undoubtedly be unintended consequences in a forced move to EV's.

All of that said, I think it will be interesting to see which automaker gives Tesla a run for their money. It may be another newcomer rather than a legacy maker.

You are comparing car vs car...I suggest there's another (more important) business question going forward.
Tesla has proven to be an extremely efficient, versatile company, for several reasons. VW, GM, Ford, etc., not so much.
Tesla is the only car company blowing away analyst's forecasts in these troubled times, growing rapidly in the midst of the semiconductor chip shortage and supply chain issues. They are simply managing critical production issues better.
Here's the bottom line: When Q3 earnings come out, Tesla will again smash predictions in every important financial metric. What do you think margins will be given the increasing delivery numbers? Margins are already the best vs other car manufacturers and should further improve.

I believe the market will continue to reward Tesla's efforts, making the company even more powerful.

 

[edyvw]

The German govt. is communist. They tend to be dictators not negotiaters.

Yeah, sure it is.

 

[edyvw]

You are comparing car vs car...I suggest there's another (more important) business question going forward.
Tesla has proven to be an extremely efficient, versatile company, for several reasons. VW, GM, Ford, etc., not so much.
Tesla is the only car company blowing away analyst's forecasts in these troubled times, growing rapidly in the midst of the semiconductor chip shortage and supply chain issues. They are simply managing critical production issues better.
Here's the bottom line: When Q3 earnings come out, Tesla will again smash predictions in every important financial metric. What do you think margins will be given the increasing delivery numbers? Margins are already the best vs other car manufacturers and should further improve.

I believe the market will continue to reward Tesla's efforts, making the company even more powerful.

Tesla does not have what other guys have: products for regular, middle-class people. I drove several Tesla's, E tron, Porsche, and while on paper Tesla might have better EV technology, overall Audi and Porsche are far, FAR ahead in overall quality. They are just more pleasant products! Simply, Tesla needs much more time to catch up on basic stuff that other guys resolved a long time ago.
Tesla is also much smaller than VW. You cannot compare the production of Tesla and VW, Toyota etc.

 

[4WD]

Tesla does not have what other guys have: products for regular, middle-class people. I drove several Tesla's, E tron, Porsche, and while on paper Tesla might have better EV technology, overall Audi and Porsche are far, FAR ahead in overall quality. They are just more pleasant products! Simply, Tesla needs much more time to catch up on basic stuff that other guys resolved a long time ago.
Tesla is also much smaller than VW. You cannot compare the production of Tesla and VW, Toyota etc.

A beer can with wheels would be superior to you - as long as it was German beer …

 

[edyvw]

A beer can with wheels would be superior to you - as long as it was German beer …

Nah, I prefer Colorado beer.
The way Tesla is assembled, I would compare it to Alfa 75, from best days though.

 

[4WD]

Nah, I prefer Colorado beer.
The way Tesla is assembled, I would compare it to Alfa 75, from best days though.

Which beer ?

 

[edyvw]

Which beer ?

90 Shilling. That is of course if I run out of Glenfiddich

 

[JeffKeryk]

Tesla does not have what other guys have: products for regular, middle-class people. I drove several Tesla's, E tron, Porsche, and while on paper Tesla might have better EV technology, overall Audi and Porsche are far, FAR ahead in overall quality. They are just more pleasant products! Simply, Tesla needs much more time to catch up on basic stuff that other guys resolved a long time ago.
Tesla is also much smaller than VW. You cannot compare the production of Tesla and VW, Toyota etc.

I am comparing businesses. Tesla is bigger than the next 6 car companies combined. And was founded in 2003...
From a market cap standpoint, Tesla dwarfs VW.
Cars tend to be subjective; people buy what they want vs what is best for them.
Businesses are necessarily objective; Tesla is killing it in this regard.

"Tesla does not have what other guys have: products for regular, middle-class people."
This used to be true and is generally true today. But things are changing.
Musk and others believe the Model Y will be Tesla's biggest seller and most profitable vehicle in the next coming years.
If and when the Model 2 arrives, watch out world.

Tesla's considerable financial might and technologies are the advantages they have over other car companies.

 

[javacontour]

Volkswagen has a 2 percent market share in the United States. They can go knock themselves out, good luck to them. They are coping with EU mandates but the US has no such mandates.

VW has a larger world view than the US. That's probably why they run neck and neck with Toyota. Seems the US based carmakers can't conceive of a world that is more than the US / North America.