Video Of Santee California Plane Crash
- Thread starter billt460
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Flying an airplane, unlike a car or anything with wheels that are stuck to the ground, there is no stopping and thinking about how you want to go about the next move. I think the word pilot means a person that knows how to plan ahead, as well as let his or her ship, sort of do what it wants. Yes it is very similar to driving on ice, sometimes the machine needs to be let alone to do its own thing with out aggravating the situation.
Many have spun in and crashed while fighting the aircraft all the way. When all they had to do is pull the power back and let go of all the controls.
This crash was likely a medical emergency of some sort. Or something took it down.
Many have spun in and crashed while fighting the aircraft all the way. When all they had to do is pull the power back and let go of all the controls.
This crash was likely a medical emergency of some sort. Or something took it down.
That was cited in one of the 737 MAX crashes. The pilots radioed they were having trouble controlling the plane, and ATC ordered them through a holding pattern with multiple turns instead of clearing some airspace so they could have unrestricted flight until back in control.
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Once a pilot loses control, attitude and speed are anyone’s guess.
90 degrees of bank and a high speed descent is entirely possible following a stall and loss of control or following a slow speed loss of control due to thrust assymetry.
90 degrees of bank and a high speed descent is entirely possible following a stall and loss of control or following a slow speed loss of control due to thrust assymetry.
Yeah - sadly, handling an airplane IFR is more demanding than folks, including many airplane owners and pilots, realize.
ATC, in their effort to help, adds to that task saturation and further degrades the pilot’s ability to handle the problem.
The words, “Stand By”* should be used when ATC is adding to the workload.
*Standard ICAO terminology. Spoken sharply by a pilot, it’s interpreted by ATC as something along the lines of ****, which is, of course, precisely what is meant.
This brings up two other magic word for pilots: "unable", and "emergency". Then do whatever you need to ensure safety of flight.
This happened 5 miles from where I live. It's not the first time we have had small aircraft go down. I could see the smoke plume from my house. Id say the pilot was disoriented for some reason. He was coming from Yuma 150 miles away and had made this flight many times. He worked in Yuma and lived in San Diego.
I really hate to see this happen, and happen so often. There is a post above relating motorcycling to flying light aircraft. The risk factor is not as far off as one might think. Motorcycling and GA flying compare well when one considers the hours of seat time, the fatality rate is about 1 in 100,000 hours. Both are about 20 times as dangerous as driving. I wish I had answers to the issues, I don't. The same problems keep happening, year after year.
Of course, when I fly, it's because I want to, not because I have to. So good weather is a must. I carry plenty of fuel and simply go way up and sit there, never buzzing the beach or my friends house. There is some hope that pilots can avoid the common mistakes through better training. But I suspect technology will be the only way we fix this.
Of course, when I fly, it's because I want to, not because I have to. So good weather is a must. I carry plenty of fuel and simply go way up and sit there, never buzzing the beach or my friends house. There is some hope that pilots can avoid the common mistakes through better training. But I suspect technology will be the only way we fix this.
Similar aircraft, similar accidents. Top one is all but identical, and occurred at Chicago Executive Airport in 2006. Stay out of pressurized twin piston Cessna's! They don't bounce well.
You have to make timely adjustments to keep it flying, That is all I know.
My neighbor had a Skymaster and just bought some kind of Cessna pressurized twin with a seperation for the pilots and a bathroom which is a necessity for me to be in an aircraft.. He spent a few weeks at some training facility before he flew the plane, the guy is under 40 and really smart.
It's not really all that difficult to figure out. It'll pull to one side and requires compensation with the rudder. Same goes for any time there's uneven propulsion. I wonder how many small aircraft pilots actually practice it.
That's right, and remember to use rudder not yoke, which some pilots get wrong because unless they fly taildraggers they forget the rudder pedals are there. There is also feathering the dead prop, increasing power on the other side, keeping the nose down and airspeed up -- even if that means a gradual descent, since some twins are so underpowered, the only real use for the 2nd engine is to get you to the scene of the crash/emergency landing (of course you can always glide there, but where's the fun in that
). And most importantly, recognizing when it happens and reacting quickly and correctly, especially in some phases of flight like initial climbout when pitched up and speed is not much higher than Vmc. It can require pushing the nose down in an immediate and aggressive manner, pointing down at the ground which is counterintuitive. But better to fly it nose down and wings level into the ground, which is survivable, than let speed decay as a low altitude stall/spin/Vmc roll is not survivable.
That's right, and remember to use rudder not yoke, which some pilots get wrong because unless they fly taildraggers they forget the rudder pedals are there. There is also feathering the dead prop, increasing power on the other side, keeping the nose down and airspeed up -- even if that means a gradual descent, since some twins are so underpowered, the only real use for the 2nd engine is to get you to the scene of the crash/emergency landing (of course you can always glide there, but where's the fun in that
I suppose it's more intuitive than a car skidding on icy roads. That's counterintuitive, where the solution is to turn the steering wheel into the direction of the skid, where it will spin in the opposite direction.
If if have it correctly, if the left engine is out or weak on a twin engine, it will pull to the left, but the solution if rudder full right to compensate. And if I'm reading it correctly, one of the procedures (however counterintuitive) is to pull back on the throttle to keep it from excessive yaw.
Of course I'd hate to see something like what happened with TransAsia 235.
I believe it was also "fork tailed doctor killer". But what a beautiful bird.
Is it me or have there been a lot of GA airplane accidents making the national news over the past few months? Being a flyer, I pay attention to (and usually get irritated by) news coverage of accidents. GA flying is way down over the past ~18 mos., but there seems to be more wrecks.... Maybe working from home I surf news sites more, I hope. Be a while before the stats start rolling in, but I am curious.
The rudder part is right. You may apply some aileron too, but typically much less than rudder. But you typically add power to the engine still running, because airspeed is critical, it's what gives you the necessary rudder authority to maintain controllable flight. Most piston twins have poor single engine climb and at high altitude or near gross weight it can be negative. When you lose one engine that's only half the power but it can mean loss of 90% or more of the climb performance, so full throttle on the good engine may be the only way to maintain both altitude and airspeed. Vmc is the minimum controllable single-engine airspeed and you need to stay above that, whatever it takes. If there's not enough power then pitch down and convert altitude to airspeed, even if that means hitting the ground it's better than rolling. So it's multiple actions, not all of which are intuitive. All that said, I don't fly multiengine, I've only read about the training and procedures. By comparison, countersteering in driving, whether on ice or for high performance driving like autocrossing or racing, is simpler and most drivers can learn the basics in a few minutes.
If it sounds like I'm contradicting my original comment about the skills needed for flying being not much more than for motorcycling, that original comment was about single engine simple general aviation airplanes. The basic skills every pilot learns before anything else. Multi engine, complex, high performance, jets, etc. are a whole 'nuther thing.
It was an earned reputation as doctors were wealthy enough to take the training and endorsements (PP, complex, high performance) quickly, in some cases pencil-whipped moving up to faster more complex airplanes when the ink was still wet on their PP, before building up their hours, experience & judgment. The analogy would be someone who gets a GSXR-1100 or Hayabusa as his very first street motorcycle.
Cirrus had a similar problem years ago, an abnormally high incident/fatality rate. Turns out there was nothing wrong with the airplane itself, but the people flying it lacked sufficient training & experience. Cirrus started their own pilot training and their safety record improved significantly.
...and the Malibu. My instructor called it the 'sexy' problem. Hot, sleek big dollar toys.
That said, Cirrus are touchy in the flare for a Cherokee driver, but yes, it is a training issue.
I hadn’t heard that one but yeah pretty much the same thing.
As far as accidents. It does seem like that but like you said without the actual data we won’t know for a bit. I kind of feel it’s a lot like other things like shootings etc. due to social media we hear about things all the time so it feels like it’s more than ever when it’s really just that we never used to have all this information at our fingertips immediately.
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