Not too bad considering the car calls for 5w30. I do lots of cold starts with short drives. I prefer the thinner for this reason, truly valid or not...
Vavoline 5w20 with 5881 miles - 1997 Subaru Legacy
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If you do lots of short drives i would personally use the 5w30. Because the short drives cause you to get fuel past the rings and into the oil due to the low operating temps so the oil gets thinned out anyways. Im not sure what you consider a short trip but for you to get fuel in the oil you would have to take multiple trips of 5 miles or less. Anything longer then the engine usually gets hot enough to evaporate the fuel/moisture out.
Look at the Super tech syn uoa on the WRX and I say wow. Tbn on Synpower is oh well....
11ppm Iron is nearly 3x what the ST 5w30 oil showed in the other post. Subies usually show little to no iron.
I wouldn't run 5w20 in it.
I wouldn't run 5w20 in it.
Originally Posted By: Chris142
11ppm Iron is nearly 3x what the ST 5w30 oil showed in the other post.
Yes, but you can't really draw conclusions from UOAs on cars of the same make, model, and year, let alone different cars where the UOAs were done by different labs.
11ppm, though higher than the universal averages, is still pretty low. It's nothing to worry about. I'd try a run of 5w30 as a comparison out of curiosity, though. Perhaps end up using a 0w30 for the best of both worlds: a 30 grade at temperature like the car is spec'd for but a 0w for better cold flow. It's an option, anyway.
11ppm Iron is nearly 3x what the ST 5w30 oil showed in the other post.
Yes, but you can't really draw conclusions from UOAs on cars of the same make, model, and year, let alone different cars where the UOAs were done by different labs.
11ppm, though higher than the universal averages, is still pretty low. It's nothing to worry about. I'd try a run of 5w30 as a comparison out of curiosity, though. Perhaps end up using a 0w30 for the best of both worlds: a 30 grade at temperature like the car is spec'd for but a 0w for better cold flow. It's an option, anyway.
Maybe I'm reading it all wrong, if so please correct me since I'm still trying to learn these reports.
Universal averages were for 4200 miles, the OP ran the oil for just under 6000 miles. Based on that the oil did OK. What I find disappointing is the oil was nearly spent at the end of the run as mentioned ^^^^. I'd be tempted to try M1 0W20 under the same conditions to see if there's an improvement. Then compare M1 0W20 to their 0W30. It's only money, LOL, and not mine. In all honest a 0W30 might be the ticket.
Universal averages were for 4200 miles, the OP ran the oil for just under 6000 miles. Based on that the oil did OK. What I find disappointing is the oil was nearly spent at the end of the run as mentioned ^^^^. I'd be tempted to try M1 0W20 under the same conditions to see if there's an improvement. Then compare M1 0W20 to their 0W30. It's only money, LOL, and not mine. In all honest a 0W30 might be the ticket.
Personally, I'd try a 0W-30, like M1 AFE.
It'll give you the cold-start protection you need, and give you a bit more thickness to deal with fule, etc...
Your piston wear (Al) is pretty high here, so the thin oil may not be protecting against cold-weather scuffing.
Also, TBN will last longer on a 6-7k run, if you want to run the oil longer.
It'll give you the cold-start protection you need, and give you a bit more thickness to deal with fule, etc...
Your piston wear (Al) is pretty high here, so the thin oil may not be protecting against cold-weather scuffing.
Also, TBN will last longer on a 6-7k run, if you want to run the oil longer.
Thanks for the feedback folks. Not sure if this has anything to do with it but I did an engine flush about two OCI's ago.
This is the Valvoline 5w20 that was $3.98 a gallon (shipped to my door) from amazon. So I plan on using the remaining 8 gallons that i have left.
I will do a 5K run this time and see if anything has changed.
This is the Valvoline 5w20 that was $3.98 a gallon (shipped to my door) from amazon. So I plan on using the remaining 8 gallons that i have left.
I will do a 5K run this time and see if anything has changed.
The oil was run almost 6,000 miles under severe conditions... lots of cold starts with short drives according to the OP. Most automakers recommend 3,000 to 3,750 OCI's for "severe" service, and this OCI was almost twice that long. The TBN was still 1.6, and wear numbers were well within acceptable limits despite the fact that the OP used an oil grade that is not recommended by the OEM for that particular engine.
It seems to be the common consensus around here that dino oils should hold up well for 4,000 to 6,000 miles under severe conditions, and as much as 8K to 10K under ideal conditions in most vehicles. So... what, exactly, is disappointing about these results??? I'm at a total loss here.
It seems to be the common consensus around here that dino oils should hold up well for 4,000 to 6,000 miles under severe conditions, and as much as 8K to 10K under ideal conditions in most vehicles. So... what, exactly, is disappointing about these results??? I'm at a total loss here.
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Originally Posted By: sw99
Thanks for the feedback folks. Not sure if this has anything to do with it but I did an engine flush about two OCI's ago.
Anything is possible.
Thanks for the feedback folks. Not sure if this has anything to do with it but I did an engine flush about two OCI's ago.
Anything is possible.
Originally Posted By: RPMster
So... what, exactly, is disappointing about these results??? I'm at a total loss here.
I mentioned to try a better oil & here's why.
- Almost no Moly.
- Almost no Boron.
- Terribly low Zinc.
Most oils on the market have a better additive pack and the OP can do so much better with other oils protection wise.
So... what, exactly, is disappointing about these results??? I'm at a total loss here.
I mentioned to try a better oil & here's why.
- Almost no Moly.
- Almost no Boron.
- Terribly low Zinc.
Most oils on the market have a better additive pack and the OP can do so much better with other oils protection wise.
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Originally Posted By: tpitcher
Disappointed in the low additive pack, thought Valvoline was better than that!! Since the TBN is at 1.6 with only 5881 on this oil, no way would I run it any longer intervals.IMHO: Try a better oil.
+1; unless something else is happening of which we are not aware, and although not linear, the 1.6TBN seems to be very low for only 5800 miles. I would try a different oil unless you are not planning to have OCIs past 6K.
Disappointed in the low additive pack, thought Valvoline was better than that!! Since the TBN is at 1.6 with only 5881 on this oil, no way would I run it any longer intervals.IMHO: Try a better oil.
+1; unless something else is happening of which we are not aware, and although not linear, the 1.6TBN seems to be very low for only 5800 miles. I would try a different oil unless you are not planning to have OCIs past 6K.
Who's to say all oils should be formulated with the same additives, or same amounts of additives? I know Ashland uses a unique add pack from Lubrizol, and nobody (outside Ashland or Lubrizol) seems to know exactly what's in it. Whatever is in there, it doesn't show up in a $30 UOA or VOA. Another thing to consider: the add pack is only part of the picture. The performance of a lubricant also largely depends on the quality of the base oils used. You really think Ashland is employing/contracting underqualified chemists? One of the oldest and most successful automotive lubricants companies just can't wait to run themselves outta business, huh?
The Valvoline UOA's posted here and in other forums -more often than not- show better than average wear results. The OP ran a 5W20 dino oil in an engine spec'd for 5W30 (which alone would likely result in extra wear), under severe service conditions, and the highest reading of any wear metal was only 11 ppm Iron after almost 6,000 miles. Poor results ... are you kidding me? And to recommend running any dino oil past 6,000 miles under severe service conditions... Wow.
The Valvoline UOA's posted here and in other forums -more often than not- show better than average wear results. The OP ran a 5W20 dino oil in an engine spec'd for 5W30 (which alone would likely result in extra wear), under severe service conditions, and the highest reading of any wear metal was only 11 ppm Iron after almost 6,000 miles. Poor results ... are you kidding me? And to recommend running any dino oil past 6,000 miles under severe service conditions... Wow.
This is winter use? Probably the oil did good.
I am still very happy despite some negative comments about the oil. The Colorado winters can be harsh around here at times. My work commute is only 7 miles so the engine hardly gets up to operating temps. In addition, I do several 55 mile round trip commutes a few times a week as well. This is the longest I have gone on dino with this vehicle. I like to stay at 5k 95% of the time (That way I can mix in my tire rotations as well). This was more out of curiosity more than anything.
My truck on the other hand... The F150 has 14 months on the MC5w20 with approximately 3200 miles on the oil. I better get that changed soon, I know...
My truck on the other hand... The F150 has 14 months on the MC5w20 with approximately 3200 miles on the oil. I better get that changed soon, I know...
I'd definitely say cap it at 5,000 and be happy for the value you are getting out of a conventional. Re-sample again during a summer interval for comparison.
The F-150 is probably at it's limit by now, as well. You are about right, but are pushing things some. I'd like to see a UOA of that as well.
The F-150 is probably at it's limit by now, as well. You are about right, but are pushing things some. I'd like to see a UOA of that as well.
Yea, good call on capping these OCI's at 5k.
Some other people can mis-interpret or twist comments all they want, but my comments hold true to what I've said: Next to zero Moly + next to zero Boron + lowest Zinc level I've seen = weak additive pack. Pure & simple.
All the best!
Some other people can mis-interpret or twist comments all they want, but my comments hold true to what I've said: Next to zero Moly + next to zero Boron + lowest Zinc level I've seen = weak additive pack. Pure & simple.
All the best!
Originally Posted By: tpitcher
Some other people can mis-interpret or twist comments all they want, but my comments hold true to what I've said:
No mis-interpreting or twisting of comments here. Your comments do hold true to what you've said -I'll give you that much at least. As far as those assertions actually carrying weight in proving a point - contrary to all other evidence presented- well that's another story. If you can really improve Valvoline's oil by adding more of certain elements to their formula, then you obviously have discovered a formula that has eluded Ashland's top engineers. Prove your case to Ashland: show them that your special additive blend actually improves the performance of their product, and you could earn a very nice salary working for them.
Some other people can mis-interpret or twist comments all they want, but my comments hold true to what I've said:
No mis-interpreting or twisting of comments here. Your comments do hold true to what you've said -I'll give you that much at least. As far as those assertions actually carrying weight in proving a point - contrary to all other evidence presented- well that's another story. If you can really improve Valvoline's oil by adding more of certain elements to their formula, then you obviously have discovered a formula that has eluded Ashland's top engineers. Prove your case to Ashland: show them that your special additive blend actually improves the performance of their product, and you could earn a very nice salary working for them.
Originally Posted By: RPMster
Originally Posted By: tpitcher
Some other people can mis-interpret or twist comments all they want, but my comments hold true to what I've said:
No mis-interpreting or twisting of comments here. Your comments do hold true to what you've said -I'll give you that much at least. As far as those assertions actually carrying weight in proving a point - contrary to all other evidence presented- well that's another story. If you can really improve Valvoline's oil by adding more of certain elements to their formula, then you obviously have discovered a formula that has eluded Ashland's top engineers. Prove your case to Ashland: show them that your special additive blend actually improves the performance of their product, and you could earn a very nice salary working for them.
Oh brother. It's weak and that's all I said - twice!
Doesn't mean it doesn't work or they're being eluded from how to make it better.. Where on earth did you get that and all the other stuff you're saying?
Re-read my posts again & then re-read how you responed and tell me who's off on a tangent.
I've used Valvoline for about 20 years.
Is it a weak add pack? Yes.
Can he do better? Yes.
Originally Posted By: tpitcher
Some other people can mis-interpret or twist comments all they want, but my comments hold true to what I've said:
No mis-interpreting or twisting of comments here. Your comments do hold true to what you've said -I'll give you that much at least. As far as those assertions actually carrying weight in proving a point - contrary to all other evidence presented- well that's another story. If you can really improve Valvoline's oil by adding more of certain elements to their formula, then you obviously have discovered a formula that has eluded Ashland's top engineers. Prove your case to Ashland: show them that your special additive blend actually improves the performance of their product, and you could earn a very nice salary working for them.
Oh brother. It's weak and that's all I said - twice!
Doesn't mean it doesn't work or they're being eluded from how to make it better.. Where on earth did you get that and all the other stuff you're saying?
Re-read my posts again & then re-read how you responed and tell me who's off on a tangent.
I've used Valvoline for about 20 years.
Is it a weak add pack? Yes.
Can he do better? Yes.
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