Valvoline Restore and Protect HTHS

[ZeeOSix]

What is the relationship between VI and VII content?

If the same exact base oil is used, and the same kind of viscosity index improvers added to the base oil is increased, the viscosity index will increase and the oil viscosity change with temperature will be less (ie, a log-log plot of the viscosity vs temperature will be flatter). The kind of VIIs used can also affect how the base oil changes viscosity with temperature and the resulting VI. The kind and level of VIIs used can also change how those VIIs behave under extreme shear rate like when the HTHS test is conducted. So there are all kinds of variables involved within the oil formulation that can affect the VI and HTHS viscosity.

HPL's PCMO 5w-20's VI is 150, and the no-VII 5W-20's VI is 140 (lower for no-VII). On the other hand, the 5W-30 PCMO VI is 158, and the no-VII VI for the 5W-30 is 171 (higher for no-VII).

Base oils have a natural VI without adding any VIIs. HPL must be using a different base oil for their no-VII oils. Comparing the VI and trying to correlate that to the amount of VIIs in the base oil only really works if the base oil and the VIIs used are the same kind, but at different concentration levels. In that case, more VIIs means a higher VI number and gives the oil a flatter viscosity vs temperature plot - ie, the VIIs help maintain higher viscosity with increased oil temperature. One thing about no-VII vs VII oil is that the HTHS viscosity should still be higher because there are no VIIs to temporarily shear down at the high shear rate of 1M/sec used in the HTHS test.

 

[mbramlett32]

Hey everyone. I've been lurking for a while, but just joined so that I can post this. I emailed valvoline to ask what the HTHS is for restore and protect, and this is what they sent.

Please see the following HTHS values for Valvoline Restore and Protect:

Valvoline Restore and Protect HTHS (cP) 150°C:

0W-20 2.65
5W-20 3.17
5W-30 3.24

Thank you.
Valvoline Product Support

The 5w-20 looks really high for a 20 weight. I replied to ask if it was a typo, but haven't heard back. Just thought I'd share this because I hadn't been able to find it for the 5w-20.

Good possibility that HTHS for 5W-20 is correct. The closer together the two numbers are of a multi-grade oil, the greater the shear stability. So the 3.17 doesn't surprise me at all.

 

[tired]

The closer together the two numbers are of a multi-grade oil, the greater the shear stability.

This has exactly zero to do with HTHS. And this comment isn't even correct all of the time.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Good possibility that HTHS for 5W-20 is correct. The closer together the two numbers are of a multi-grade oil, the greater the shear stability. So the 3.17 doesn't surprise me at all.

The HPL no-VII 5W-20 motor oils don't even have a HTHS viscosity above 3.0. So Valvoline's claim for their 5W-20 seems pretty suspect to me.

 

[mbramlett32]

The HPL no-VII 5W-20 motor oils don't even have a HTHS viscosity above 3.0. So Valvoline's claim for their 5W-20 seems pretty suspect to me.

View attachment 337345

That is true but HPL is using higher grade base oils in there formulations as well. With group IV and group V base oil you can get away with a lower HTHS because the base oil is a alot more shear stable.

 

[Japanese]

Oil's HTHS and Noack values are both directly related to its viscosity.

There is no 0/5W-20 oil with HTHS higher than 2.9 cP or so. As there is no 0/5W-30 oil with HTHS higher than 3.6 cP. If there are, they are rare exception.

As there is hardly 0/5-W-20 oil with Noack lower than 10% and that for 0/5W-30 oils vary (depending on the brand) but hardly goes below 8%.

 

[nascarnation]

If your engine required this level of protection, and survived because appropriate lubes were used, is there any reason it would need to be cleaned up with the Valvoline?

 

[tired]

If your engine required this level of protection, and survived because appropriate lubes were used, is there any reason it would need to be cleaned up with the Valvoline?

It's interesting the reasons people find to not run this oil, when it's the same price as others but performs a function no other oil does.

Literally zero downside.

Also, you don't start burning oil...until you start burning oil. Why not clean everything back to factory cleanliness levels for no increased cost?? I have not seen an argument against that.

 

[ZeeOSix]

That is true but HPL is using higher grade base oils in there formulations as well. With group IV and group V base oil you can get away with a lower HTHS because the base oil is a alot more shear stable.

Sure, but the point of my post was to show that even with a premium 5W-20 with no-VII the HTHS is still well below 3.0 cP. Thereby, Valvoline's claim of the Valvoline Restore and Protect 5w20 HTHS being 3.17 cP seems like a leap that's not possible.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Oil's HTHS and Noack values are both directly related to its viscosity.

Noack can vary quite a bit between different oil brands/formulations of the same multi-viscosity ... so I'd say Noack is not directly related to viscosity but rather formulation.

 

[Legs4Arms]

The 5w-30 is pretty good for an API SP, non-Euro 5w-30. Most out there are well under 3.2.

Isn't Mobil 1 5W-30 High Mileage ~3.2'ish?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Isn't Mobil 1 5W-30 High Mileage ~3.2'ish?

Valvoline High Mileage 5W-30 full synthetic is 3.2 HTHS.

 

[ZeeOSix]

The Valvoline High Mileage Extended Protection 5W-30 full synthetic has HTHS of 3.3 cP.

 

[kschachn]

That is true but HPL is using higher grade base oils in there formulations as well. With group IV and group V base oil you can get away with a lower HTHS because the base oil is a alot more shear stable.

All base oils are shear stable. No base oils shear in an engine. In that regard what the Group IV base gets you is a better viscosity index.

 

[RallyXaDSM]

The HPL no-VII 5W-20 motor oils don't even have a HTHS viscosity above 3.0. So Valvoline's claim for their 5W-20 seems pretty suspect to me.

View attachment 337345

I could have sworn it used to be much higher so I went back and found one of the threads. Guess this old PDS had a typo?

 

[ZeeOSix]

I could have sworn it used to be much higher so I went back and found one of the threads. Guess this old PDS had a typo?

View attachment 337759

I'm the one who pointed it out in this thread. It was corrected by HPL after that.

Post in thread 'High Performance Lubricants No VII series engine oils.'

Mar 24, 2025

These are all No VII HPL motor oils - following is from the spec sheet info.

Curious why the HTHS viscosity difference between the 5W-20 Euro is ~0.5 cP higher than the 5W-20 PCMO, but the 5w30 Euro is only ~0.17 cP higher than the 5w30 PCMO? What's special and different with the Euro 5W-20?

• ZeeOSix

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Post in thread 'High Performance Lubricants No VII series engine oils.'

Mar 25, 2025

I did some calculations on the No VII oils shown in post 611 (LINK). I assumed them to be Newtonian due to no VII, and the calculated HTHS was within 0.02 cP for all but the Euro 5W-20. Per the spec sheet, the Euro 5W-20 is acting better than an ideal Newtonian oil. Summary below.

Euro 5W-20: Spec sheet 3.267 cP HTHS, calculated 2.752 cP - delta 0.515 cP (out of bed with the other no VII oils)

Euro 5w30: Spec sheet 3.566 cP HTHS, calculated 3.584 cP - delta 0.018 cP.

PCMO 5W-20: Spec sheet 2.771 cP HTHS, calculated 2.751 cP - delta 0.020 cP.

PCMO 5w30: Spec sheet 3.399 cP...

• ZeeOSix

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[Japanese]

If your engine required this level of protection, and survived because appropriate lubes were used, is there any reason it would need to be cleaned up with the Valvoline?

We never know that until the engine starts excessively burning oil or just breaks down.

 

[Japanese]

Noack can vary quite a bit between different oil brands/formulations of the same multi-viscosity ... so I'd say Noack is not directly related to viscosity but rather formulation.

From the PDS data of many different oils I found correlation between oil's viscosity and its Noack - the thicker the oil, the lower percent is the Noack value.

 

[ZeeOSix]

From the PDS data of many different oils I found correlation between oil's viscosity and its Noack - the thicker the oil, the lower percent is the Noack value.

Sure, there is some correlation there but as said you can look at different oils of the same viscosity and they will vary quite a bit, so it's not just viscosity correlated in all cases.

 

[kschachn]

Sure, there is some correlation there but as said you can look at different oils of the same viscosity and they will vary quite a bit, so it's not just viscosity correlated in all cases.

Which includes the base oil composition and additives, all of which influence the Noack value.

Noack is also of questionable importance IMO. It's touted by some blenders though.