Valvoline Full Synthetic Dexron VI or MaxLife ATF? Which one should I choose?

[Philippe1988]

Hello guys! Nice to meet you! My name is Philippe and I live in Brazil. I always follow the forum but have not yet registered. I do not speak English, so sorry for the Google Translate hehehe. I have a car you probably do not know, a Chevrolet Vectra C Elite 2008, 2.0L 8 valves, 160hp (With remap), Cruze replaced the Vectra in 2012 here in Brazil. Its automatic transmission is a 4-speed AW40-50 (AF20). Here in Brazil we do not have many options of automatic transmission oil, because the Brazilian unfortunately does not have the mentality to replace the transmission oil. There are few people who care about it. Lets go to what matters. First, we do not use miles here, we use kilometers. The manual for my Vectra specifies the Dexron III-E specification oil, but I never found it to buy, and informs me that it is to replace the oil every 50k kilometers. GM here in Brazil reports that Dexron VI is superior and replaces Dexron III. When the Vectra arrived in the 50k kilometers I used the Valvoline Full Syntetich Dexron VI, it worked perfectly. My doubt is. The Vectra is almost 100km. The best options I have here in Brazil are the Valvoline Full Syntetich Dexron VI and the Valvoline MaxLife ATF, which is also full Syntetich. Other brands with Mobil and etc are all Synblend. Which of the 2 is better and why? Which one should I choose?

 

[Kira]

Stick with what worked.
The Valvoline FS Dexron IV worked the last time. Use it this time.

 

[Philippe1988]

Thanks for the reply. I agree with you, but would I have any benefit with MaxLife? Perhaps less friction and consequently a slight gain in performance?

 

[RyanY]

As Kira said, stick with what works...unless you have a reason to change, such as poor shifts, fluid availability, price, etc. Dexron VI is good fluid. So is Maxlife. Either of these will work well.

 

[Overfill]

Valvoline Maxlife will help maintain the pliability of your transmission seals. It will also last just as long. I would use the Maxlife unless it is expensive.

 

[Hall]

Originally Posted by Philippe1988
....and consequently a slight gain in performance?


Fluido diferente não aumentará o desempenho. Pode parecer diferente.

Different fluid won't increase performance. It might feel different though.

(I must have forgot to hit the "post" button)

 

[walterjay]

I love MaxLife. But in your case I would go with what you have used since it worked well.

 

[csandste]

I've had excellent luck with Maxlife in two GM six speed automatics and it will be my fill when I change my Kia Soul.

 

[Philippe1988]

Originally Posted by hallstevenson
Originally Posted by Philippe1988
....and consequently a slight gain in performance?


Fluido diferente não aumentará o desempenho. Pode parecer diferente.

Different fluid won't increase performance. It might feel different though.

(I must have forgot to hit the "post" button)


Acho que me expressei mal. Quando eu falei performance, eu quis dizer um carro mais "solto".

I think I expressed myself poorly. When I said performance, I meant a more "loose" car.

 

[dave1251]

Use what costs less I use both.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Maxlife is well-regarded on here

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted by Philippe1988
Hello guys! Nice to meet you! My name is Philippe and I live in Brazil. I always follow the forum but have not yet registered. I do not speak English, so sorry for the Google Translate hehehe. I have a car you probably do not know, a Chevrolet Vectra C Elite 2008, 2.0L 8 valves, 160hp (With remap), Cruze replaced the Vectra in 2012 here in Brazil. Its automatic transmission is a 4-speed AW40-50 (AF20). Here in Brazil we do not have many options of automatic transmission oil, because the Brazilian unfortunately does not have the mentality to replace the transmission oil. There are few people who care about it. Lets go to what matters. First, we do not use miles here, we use kilometers. The manual for my Vectra specifies the Dexron III-E specification oil, but I never found it to buy, and informs me that it is to replace the oil every 50k kilometers. GM here in Brazil reports that Dexron VI is superior and replaces Dexron III. When the Vectra arrived in the 50k kilometers I used the Valvoline Full Syntetich Dexron VI, it worked perfectly. My doubt is. The Vectra is almost 100km. The best options I have here in Brazil are the Valvoline Full Syntetich Dexron VI and the Valvoline MaxLife ATF, which is also full Syntetich. Other brands with Mobil and etc are all Synblend. Which of the 2 is better and why? Which one should I choose?


Its probably Dex IIE not IIIE The Dex III designations AFAIK was F, G and H, that probably why you cant find it. From research I have done on these and the 5 speed units do not use a synthetic fluid in them or Dex VI.
The back spec is for GM THM units only and does not include other transmissions eg AW that may have used Dex III including some Allison units Who had a TSB about not using it in some units as it was found to harden some seals permanently and cause internal and external leakage, not a good thing.

Synthetic Dex III compatible fluid like Amsoil ATF (not ATFL) and Redline D4 seem to work fine but a good mineral based product like Castrol Transmax DEX/MERC is an excellent choice also and much less expensive.

I don't know all the ins and out of these specs, recommendations or TSB's but I will not risk a transmission playing games with the fluid, it can be catastrophic and very expensive.

 

[4WD]

The OEM 40k change on our Cruze drained the worst ATF I have seen.
I now change a gallon of Maxlife every 20k … it's at 115k and shifts well.
Very cheap and easy …

 

[Trav]

Not to sound like a jerk but how is the 6T40 that is factory filled with dex VI comparable to a AW40-50LE 4 spd or 55-50 5 spd transmission? Neither is spec'd for dex VI or multi vehicle fluid that are low viscosity like Maxlife.
Spec is dex III for the 4 spd and 3309/T-IV for the 5 spd. Same car name but totally different drive trains where he is, his I believe is the 2.0 Advantage flex power engine.

Saab also uses these transmission units and its always a Q&A session which is the correct or best fluids for them, I use the Castrol Transmax dex/merc in the 4 spd and Aisin 3309-T-IV both mineral fluids for the 5 spd and change them at 30K, never an issue.
There are of course other brands that are just as good quality but are the same spec. I figure you cant go wrong when there are questions to use a fluid formulated and labeled for the actual transmission manufacturer to their specs.

With these units there is no serviceable filter or pan, the filter is way up in the case and only accessible during tear down so it may not be a bad idea to add an aftermarket add on in line filter with a bypass if the fluid doesn't look healthy or any junk comes out during a drain.

JMHO


With a little luck Cline will chime in with any corrections and thoughts.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted by Trav
Not to sound like a jerk but how is the 6T40 that is factory filled with dex VI comparable to a AW40-50LE 4 spd or 55-50 5 spd transmission? Neither is spec'd for dex VI or multi vehicle fluid that are low viscosity like Maxlife.
Spec is dex III for the 4 spd and 3309/T-IV for the 5 spd. Same car name but totally different drive trains where he is, his I believe is the 2.0 Advantage flex power engine.

Saab also uses these transmission units and its always a Q&A session which is the correct or best fluids for them, I use the Castrol Transmax dex/merc in the 4 spd and Aisin 3309-T-IV both mineral fluids for the 5 spd and change them at 30K, never an issue.
There are of course other brands that are just as good quality but are the same spec. I figure you cant go wrong when there are questions to use a fluid formulated and labeled for the actual transmission manufacturer to their specs.

With these units there is no serviceable filter or pan, the filter is way up in the case and only accessible during tear down so it may not be a bad idea to add an aftermarket add on in line filter with a bypass if the fluid doesn't look healthy or any junk comes out during a drain.

JMHO


With a little luck Cline will chime in with any corrections and thoughts.



DEX III is thinner at around 10K miles of use then DEX VI and Maxlife ATF will ever be and DEX III just gets thinner from use there.

 

[Trav]

You miss the point, its not only a question of viscosity with these old AW boxes it is about using dex VI, there is some seal compatibility issues with it.
Allison had issues with some of their boxes when the back spec thing happened and issued a TSB about it. Can you state for a fact that Maxlife supposedly being dex VI compatible does not contain the compound that caused these issues?

Seal hardening can cause enormous pressure drop inside the transmission and that is a real problem, it will probably take a while but that is something you don't need.
These AW boxes are not back spec to dex VI from dex III and the 5 spd spec remains 3309/T-IV.

These units are not GM and any GM back spec is not automatically applicable to them. There is no guarantee it is an adequate replacement fluid as far as seal compatibility goes. Once you start looking into this you go down a deep hole. That is why I say when you run into this sort of thing and it is rare stay with fluid proven in the unit, it is a safe bet.

The unit the OP has is not a GM produced unit it is the same AW unit Saab used up to 2002, it is a good and reliable unit but has nothing to do with GM other than GM used it in some products.
This is from Allison and Saab.
Quote
From Allison Service Information Letter 10-TR-99, Rev. F (January, 2007)
Subject: Transmission Fluid/Filter Change Recommendations - New TES-389 Fluid Specification - DEXRON-VI

... In addition, GM has replaced DEXRON-III with DEXRON-VI effective January 1, 2007. Allison has made changes to 1000, 2000, 3000, 4000 Product Families transmissions to be compatible with DEXRON-VI. Allison has also created a new automatic transmission fluid specification, Schedule 1 TES-389. The new Allison specification gives OEMs and customers another approved fluid choice.

Allison Transmission recommends that all customers use TranSynd or TES 295 equivalent fluids to extend drain intervals and enhance transmission performance and durability in all operating environments. Customers may continue to choose from a wide variety of Allison-approved fluids. General Motors no longer licenses DEXRON-III fluids effective January 1, 2007. DEXRON-VI fluids may be used in the 1000 and 2000 Product Families transmissions beginning with S/N 6310670488 and 6320784373.

Schedule 1 TES-389 and DEXRON-VI fluids will have the same fluid change intervals and will be the same as the current Allison approved Non-TES 295 fluid intervals.


Saab has no problem recommending full synthetic engine oils but when it came to the transmission (the same family model he is using). Keep in mind when using a back spec product that it is from the original manufacture and not applicable to all other manufacturers that may use it and there is no back specing a seal that is already in service.

 

[4WD]

He asked about two fluids that have been used hundreds of times because the other standards don't exist and GM back spec'd knowing the old stuff is not as capable after temperature and time … I'm aware of the slight difference in viscosity
*So is Valvoline the formulator … who lowered vis to get in line.
… but what I used in back spec early Dex cases is Mobil 1 synthetic ATF as did many of us who towed heavy in the south in that old Dex III era. Look at the VI on Mobil 1 multi vehicle and you see synthetic. Used in an era when FF was not … but FF suffered oxidation by heat. So many switched to synthetic before GM.

Sounds to me he can't find an ATF in a spec that no longer exists … but he did not ask an open ended question.
To that I'd say M1 (thickness and can hold it) …

*BTW … similar threads started in 2011 … or ?

 

[Trav]

He does not have a GM transmission. In the 4 spd AW I cant see there being any issues running a dex III spec synthetic clone like D4 or Amsoil ATF, Mobil 1, etc but that is not my decision or risk if there is any. Notice when you look this unit up on Amsoil or Redline they do not recommend D6 or ATFL which are dex VI universal clones. In the 5 spd I wouldn't risk it, stay with the T-IV 3309.
I think I have outlined the issue pretty well, this is another transmission manufacturer that used an old GM spec fluid, any back spec may or may not be applicable and in this case it apparently is not as AW has not issued any back spec to dex VI for this unit but they have removed the "Mineral only" verbiage for later versions of this same box but that also does not mean they didn't update the seal material at some point, minimal risk when using a dex III clone synthetic IMHO.

Threads on this subject are up all the time since 2006. The horse has been beaten to death and buried a long time ago, yet still you have people that say use Maxlife, I do it works great in mine which is not the same as yours its not even made by the same manufacturer but it will still work great.
Personally with parts this sensitive and expensive, I don't take blowing the manufactures spec off and going my own way lightly, caution and research are a good idea. If its a GM produced box then sure use the dex VI, they know it works in those units as they also know the composition of every seal, o ring and gasket in the thing.

 

[Philippe1988]

Thank you all very much for the information and help. After I read everything I thought a lot. A lot of what Trav said made me question some things about the Maxlife ATF. GM here in Brazil reports that the Dexron VI specification meets and exceeds the Dexron II and III specifications, being compatible on equipment requiring Dexron II or III, and also completes by stating that the Dexron VI specification can be used for automatic car transmissions manufactured in Brazil from 2006 or more. Thus, the box AW40-50 from Vectra A (1993 to 1995) and B (1996 to 2005) which theoretically is the same as Vectra C (2006 to 2011) suspect that they actually have differences, since even the Dexron VI specification being compatible with Dexron II and III, GM recommends only on vehicles from 2006 or later.

Trav, I looked at the manual again, and it really specifies Dexron III-E for the automatic transmission and Dexron II for power steering, but strangely in the Vectra 2009, 2010 and 2011 manuals there is Dexron III-H, I believe was a spelling mistake only in the 2008 manual. But I confirm one thing, when placing the Valvoline Full Syntetich Dexron VI in the 50k km, which in the package says to be compatible with Dexron II and III, I felt no difference, the transmission remained smooth and without noise like when new.

My question was more whether Maxlife ATF is better, but I have to agree with Trev when reading about Maxlife ATF. Valvoline says it is compatible with equipment requiring Dexron VI, but is not GM approved, and nowhere on the packaging does it have any information about Dexron II and III. So I think I'll really stay with the Valvoline Full Syntetich Dexron VI. Thank you all very much for your attention.

 

[nascarnation]

On the Allison 1000/2000 we had to change the material on some internal seals to get full compatibility with the Dex VI.
It wasn't a low hour failure, but saw some issues at very high hours. Basically they cook these seals in max temp fluid for thousands of hours and then examine them.

GM is all about commonality across the board, they build trucks with Hydramatics and Allisons on the same production line, GM basically wanted Dex VI in everything. Dex VI was a lower vis deal for fuel economy but they did improve the base fluid and got better oxidation life. If you're running an application with a tough duty cycle, TES-295 is the stuff to have.