Valvoline extended protection 0w-20

[doublebase]

The Valvoline EP line apparently uses heavy cuts of group III and a small amount of group 5.

I’m begging to think that’s the formula for most everyone now...unless you’re going boutique.

 

[kschachn]

A nanny system? Why, once the manufacturer recommends a lighter weight oil, would the manufacturer be responsible to enforce the user to use it? Haven’t they held up their end of the bargain in CAFE regulations? They built an engine designed to handle a 0w16/0w20 oil, to manage an extra 1 mpg of fuel savings. Isn’t that all they’d be required to do?

So is it a nanny system for cafe or a system that is really designed to throw a check engine light because it’s out of the threshold of the parameters set by performance specifications by the manufacturer, to prevent engine damage?

No that’s not how it works. Have you read any of the CAFE award letters that have been posted here and elsewhere? The manufacturer is indeed responsible for enforcing the requirements of the grade that was used to obtain the CAFE fuel economy standards. In fact they are responsible for strenuously enforcing that grade. Even including how they market oils within their dealership.

Besides, no oil of a higher grade is going to damage an engine. MOFT is what protects an engine not damage is it. All these multiple discussions about how an engine might be damaged by a higher grade of oil and that somehow they are tied to warranty or some specific requirement have no basis in reality. There is actually no evidence that any manufacturer believes that a higher grade oil will be detrimental to the engine. In fact there are instances where the manufacturer indicates that it can be beneficial.

 

[doublebase]

No that’s not how it works. Have you read any of the CAFE award letters that have been posted here and elsewhere? The manufacturer is indeed responsible for enforcing the requirements of the grade that was used to obtain the CAFE fuel economy standards. In fact they are responsible for strenuously enforcing that grade. Even including how they market oils within their dealership.

Besides, no oil of a higher grade is going to damage an engine. MOFT is what protects an engine not damage is it. All these multiple discussions about how an engine might be damaged by a higher grade of oil and that somehow they are tied to warranty or some specific requirement have no basis in reality. There is actually no evidence that any manufacturer believes that a higher grade oil will be detrimental to the engine. In fact there are instances where the manufacturer indicates that it can be beneficial.

I have not read CAFE award letters posted here, do they include a nanny system? I’ll have to check that out, I didn’t realize a manufacturer is required to build into their monitoring software parameters that alert a deviation from oil weight to meet CAFE regulations.

And I’m surprised the manufacturer is required to enforce strenuously the grade of oil a customer uses in a car they purchased. I didn’t realize any sort of commitment could be enforced upon a manufacturer or citizen.

Now, I could see how variable valve timing alters the federal emission parameters that’s tested every 15 seconds by OBD 2 test parameters. And how oil could effect that, but I didn’t realize any of it would be because if cafe regulations. Unless thats being lumped in with federal emissions? And it probably is?

 

[kschachn]

I have not read CAFE award letters posted here, do they include a nanny system? I’ll have to check that out, I didn’t realize a manufacturer is required to build into their monitoring software parameters that alert a deviation from oil weight to meet CAFE regulations.

And I’m surprised the manufacturer is required to enforce strenuously the grade of oil a customer uses in a car they purchased. I didn’t realize any sort of commitment could be enforced upon a manufacturer or citizen.

Now, I could see how variable valve timing alters the federal emission parameters that’s tested every 15 seconds by OBD 2 test parameters. And how oil could effect that, but I didn’t realize any of it would be because if cafe regulations. Unless thats being lumped in with federal emissions? And it probably is?

You haven’t been around much then. Here is an example of an award letter, there have been more recent ones posted in the past. But the wording is similar.

There is or was a thread about VVT actuator signatures being used to enforce the use of a grade. There is no design imperative that would make a manufacturer require a grade for proper operation, and that's not what is being discussed. It's using an actuation timing signature to detect something, not using it for operation.

Best 0w16 oil?

Can't wait to be titillated by the secrets. Do we have to learn a handshake first? I have the data, kschachn. The numbers are there. We have it all.

bobistheoilguy.com

 

[doublebase]

You haven’t been around much then. Here is an example of an award letter, there have been more recent ones posted in the past. But the wording is similar.

There is or was a thread about VVT actuator signatures being used to enforce the use of a grade. There is no design imperative that would make a manufacturer require a grade for proper operation, and that's not what is being discussed. It's using an actuation timing signature to detect something, not using it for operation.

Best 0w16 oil?

Can't wait to be titillated by the secrets. Do we have to learn a handshake first? I have the data, kschachn. The numbers are there. We have it all.

bobistheoilguy.com

The first paragraph, I get that. Enforcement is putting the weight on the oil cap, owners manual, selling it in the dealers, providing fuel economy data on the benefits, providing a manufacturer branded weighted oil, etc.

Does it say in cafe documentation to include actuation timing signatures to detect oil weight discrepancies? Because that (to me) is enforcement to an owner. Not so much an oil cap or any owners manual recommendation. Or carrying 0W20 at the dealer that most won’t be taking their car to get an oil change anyway.

 

[kschachn]

The first paragraph, I get that. Enforcement is putting the weight on the oil cap, owners manual, selling it in the dealers, providing fuel economy data on the benefits, providing a manufacturer branded weighted oil, etc.

Does it say in cafe documentation to include actuation timing signatures to detect oil weight discrepancies? Because that (to me) is enforcement to an owner. Not so much an oil cap or any owners manual recommendation. Or carrying 0W20 at the dealer that most won’t be taking their car to get an oil change anyway.

Well I'm glad you get that, when you said "And I’m surprised the manufacturer is required to enforce strenuously the grade of oil a customer uses in a car they purchased. I didn’t realize any sort of commitment could be enforced upon a manufacturer or citizen", I wasn't sure you did.

As for the discussion on using signatures to detect oil grade, it was on here in the past. I looked around for it (and I'm usually pretty good at finding past discussions) but I can't find it.

Also when you said "So is it a nanny system for cafe or a system that is really designed to throw a check engine light because it’s out of the threshold of the parameters set by performance specifications by the manufacturer, to prevent engine damage?", what kind of engine damage could occur with an oil that is of a grade higher than what is recommended by the manufacturer?

 

[The Critic]

Besides, no oil of a higher grade is going to damage an engine. MOFT is what protects an engine not damage is it. All these multiple discussions about how an engine might be damaged by a higher grade of oil and that somehow they are tied to warranty or some specific requirement have no basis in reality. There is actually no evidence that any manufacturer believes that a higher grade oil will be detrimental to the engine. In fact there are instances where the manufacturer indicates that it can be beneficial.

Thoughts on these statements?

If your engine owners manual says use 0w20 or 5w20 there is a reason for it more than just MPG.

It's not splitting hairs because HTHS mins for your engine is defined from MOFT.

I would NEVER recommend using less than recommended HTHS unless I knew the engineering data for that engine. Few of us ever will.

I will disagree about using an engine oil that is higher HTHS than required because there are designs that recommend 0w20 or 5w20 that require lower viscosities for heat dissipation and heat transfer design into certain designs. This so you get a balanced viscosity over the service temps, pressures, and drain intervals.

Using a higher viscosity than is required can be compensated by exotic esters and high quality synthetic base oils that test higher HTHS when they are very stable regardless of viscosity behavior in other words they stay in grade regardless of temp and pressure. In that case what Grumpy Bear shares can function fine.... but be careful, if you get a needlessly heavy lubricant in spite of temp as in a cheapo base oil with VII polymers who will thicken enough to change that heat dissipation function.

Especially critical in tight deck heights and critical coolant and oil flow valleys and journals that need speedy movement. I have seen deposits form in Ford Modular V8's specifically the 4.6L. I am not recently familiar enough with GM V8's and V6 engines that are recommending 0w20.

"Yea yea"..... don't dismiss what engineers designed and tested for a reason. Blanket dismissal can get an owner in trouble. This is not splitting hairs but an honest engine testing background warning. The hydraulic function on our engines is critical too. Cam phasers hydraulic function can be significantly affected in that case. Affecting combustion dynamics via valve action.

Oil type for 2014 Sierra 5.3

www.gm-trucks.com

If an engine is designed to handle 2.6 HTHS and that protects above MOFT that engine can last a long time with whatever the SAE calls that bottled oil. 0w8,0w16,0w20 etc.

Using higher HTHS than an engine design requires just drags on cooling and oil flow in the most critical applications.

Remember too thats design, once you load your engine with sludge, wear scars, fuels dilution, carbon loading, and potentially blocked or partially blocked journals all bets are off on this theoretical calculations.

Oil type for 2014 Sierra 5.3

www.gm-trucks.com

In his posts, the guy says he has 40+ years of consulting experience with major oil companies and worked for Cummins at one point.

 

[kschachn]

Well when they go on about "oil flow" I tend to stop reading. That generally tells me they don't know what they are talking about and are relying on imagination rather than facts. The difference in "flow" between a 20- and a 30-grade at operating temperature is inconsequential, not to mention the typical misunderstanding about flow.

 

[The Critic]

Well when they go on about "oil flow" I tend to stop reading. That generally tells me they don't know what they are talking about and are relying on imagination rather than facts. The difference in "flow" between a 20- and a 30-grade at temperature is inconsequential, not to mention the typical misunderstanding about flow.

He also offers an oil analysis interpretation service for $158 where you can pick his brain further.

 

[OVERKILL]

Thoughts on these statements?

Oil type for 2014 Sierra 5.3

www.gm-trucks.com

Oil type for 2014 Sierra 5.3

www.gm-trucks.com

In his posts, the guy says he has 40+ years of consulting experience with major oil companies and has worked for Cummins at one point.

Well, we look at the Coyote and the fact it spec'd both 5W-20 and 5W-50. Then we can also look at the HEMI. Are the clearances and dimensions between the 6.4L and 5.7L different? I don't believe so, despite one spec'ing a ~2.6 HTHS while the other a 3.5+.

And of course with positive displacement oil pumps, we know "flow" is also a nothingburger. Then there's ambient temp impact on viscosity...

 

[drtyler]

Thoughts on these statements?

Oil type for 2014 Sierra 5.3

www.gm-trucks.com

Oil type for 2014 Sierra 5.3

www.gm-trucks.com

In his posts, the guy says he has 40+ years of consulting experience with major oil companies and has worked for Cummins at one point.

Never underestimate a person’s ability to bloviate, especially if they consider themselves a consultant.

 

[doublebase]

Well I'm glad you get that, when you said "And I’m surprised the manufacturer is required to enforce strenuously the grade of oil a customer uses in a car they purchased. I didn’t realize any sort of commitment could be enforced upon a manufacturer or citizen", I wasn't sure you did.

As for the discussion on using signatures to detect oil grade, it was on here in the past. I looked around for it (and I'm usually pretty good at finding past discussions) but I can't find it.

Also when you said "So is it a nanny system for cafe or a system that is really designed to throw a check engine light because it’s out of the threshold of the parameters set by performance specifications by the manufacturer, to prevent engine damage?", what kind of engine damage could occur with an oil that is of a grade higher than what is recommended by the manufacturer?

Well, thanks for addressing my additional thoughts after my initial questions. And providing an answer to them. Appreciate it.

As for the first, and initial questions ”is it a nanny system for cafe or a system that is really designed to throw a check engine light because it’s out of the threshold of the parameters set by performance specifications by the manufacturer, to prevent engine damage?”. Do I have to quotation myself when I wrote it? Haha.

The initial/first part I’m more interested in because I’ve never heard or seen that. Ever. And that would be of interest to me, and I’d love to be able to talk about that with people in the industry. That’s why I asked, and if you can find anything about nanny systems or oil viscosity detection cafe regulated check engine lights, point me to it. It’s interesting and meaningful going forward.

The engine damage from heavier viscosity oil, I suppose could occur upon cold weather start ups? Or, hypothetically over thousands of actuations of a valve timing actuator...could damage occur to the ramping setups or pins in control valves? Doubt it, but I don’t know, that’s why I was asking. But I imagine it would have to be higher than one grade higher than manufacturer recommendations. A question, with cafe regulations and manufacturer enforcement requirements, are they still called oil recommendations? or are they called oil required enforcements?

 

[ZeeOSix]

If a car manufacturer is using oil temperature, oil pressure and engine RPM in an algorithm to determine the oil viscosity, it's not because CAFE has required them to do so ... that would be nonsense reserved for the future. When the alarm goes off, a signal is sent via satelllite to the CAFE police and they come to get you and your vehicle. 😄

 

[kschachn]

If a car manufacturer is using oil temperature, oil pressure and engine RPM in an algorithm to determine the oil viscosity, it's not because CAFE has required them to do so ... that would be nonsense reserved for the future. When the alarm goes off, a signal is sent via satelllite to the CAFE police and they come to get you and your vehicle. 😄

It’s not that far fetched. It would trigger a CEL and on my Tiguan those get reported to the dealership along with other maintenance events such as scheduled service and the oil change interval.

 

[OVERKILL]

If a car manufacturer is using oil temperature, oil pressure and engine RPM in an algorithm to determine the oil viscosity, it's not because CAFE has required them to do so ... that would be nonsense reserved for the future. When the alarm goes off, a signal is sent via satelllite to the CAFE police and they come to get you and your vehicle. 😄

Yet that's exactly what FCA was doing with with the HEMI, lol.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Yet that's exactly what FCA was doing with with the HEMI, lol.

Highly doubt is was because of CAFE ... that's something FCA decided to do for whatever reason, unless they have some kind of "behind the scenes secret agreement" with CAFE to get some more CAFE credits kickback, lol. Once a person buys a vehicle, CAFE has zero control on what oil viscosity they run in the engine.

 

[ZeeOSix]

It’s not that far fetched. It would trigger a CEL and on my Tiguan those get reported to the dealership along with other maintenance events such as scheduled service and the oil change interval.

That's why I mentioned "nonsense reserved for the future".

 

[OVERKILL]

Highly doubt is was because of CAFE ... that's something FCA decided to do for whatever reason, unless they have some kind of "behind the scenes secret agreement" with CAFE to get some more CAFE credits kickback, lol. Once a person buys a vehicle, CAFE has zero control on what oil viscosity they run in the engine.

Maybe they do

 

[ZeeOSix]

Maybe they do

FCA engine engineers working with CAFE ... 😄

 

[ZeeOSix]

Working on the oil viscosity monitor and reporting system ... 😄