Using Jaso FB in an engine where FD is recommended

[revhead_ozzy]

Considering that blowers, chainsaws, brush cutters, etc., which typically use JASO FB (green keepers) oil, tend to rev at least as hard, if not harder, than a 2-stroke bike ridden by an average weekend rider in off-road conditions, would the lubrication requirements be similar for a dirt bike that the manufacturer recommends jaso fd?

I presume the FD rating is strictly for emissions, rather than engine longevity.

(I always use FC/FD regardless - just interested for no particular reason)

 

[doitmyself]

Good question. All I can say is that I have used the Stihl FB rated oil for over 3 decades in professional use of all types of outdoor power equipment without any issues.

They removed the fuel stabilizer from the Ultra, which makes me want to switch to another brand.

 

[revhead_ozzy]

Good question. All I can say is that I have used the Stihl FB rated oil for over 3 decades in professional use of all types of outdoor power equipment without any issues.

They removed the fuel stabilizer from the Ultra, which makes me want to switch to another brand.

Good to know. But would you even risk using that same oil in a $10k dirt bike or snow machine?

I know I won’t. Unless desperate. But that is because I believe , and possibly wrongly, that fd or fc as a minimum is the way to go and anything less is gonna screw the engine.

 

[doitmyself]

Good to know. But would you even risk using that same oil in a $10k dirt bike or snow machine?

I know I won’t. Unless desperate. But that is because I believe , and possibly wrongly, that fd or fc as a minimum is the way to go and anything less is gonna screw the engine.

Absolutely not. I would follow the manufacturers recommendations. Outdoor power equipment probably operates at much less torque than motorcycles and snowmobiles. Maybe that has something to do with oil choice?

I also have never had any problems not using DOT 4 brake fluid in my vehicles that recommend DOT 3. A lot of us worry too much.

 

[dnewton3]

The FD and L-EGD oils run very clean. I'm not sure if the primary intent was for cleaner emissions, but these lubes make the engines much cleaner internally. The exhaust ports and ring packs have much less coking and such over time. Given that ECHO equipment has used this lube standard for many years, combined with the longevity of their equipment in typical use, it would (at face value) indicate that these lubes are decent at promoting longevity. At least in 2-stroke OPE.

However, not all lubes are for all applications, as we all know. I'd have to say one should stick to the OEM recommendations as two-stroke engines can be VERY finicky about their lubes over the long haul.

 

[tmorris1]

Dirt Bikes are going to have a lot more load on the engine than lawn equipment. I use Amsoil Dominator or Interceptor in our dirt bikes and I have had good luck with it in a Stihl Blower as well. Engines run clean and last as they should. Interceptor says to use where API-TC and JASO FD are specified. Dominator is more of a racing oil, but they don't really spec anything.

 

[Rand]

I use JASO FD in everything(OPE) it barely costs more.. sometimes less (VP racing on clearance)

If I was using it in a high powered custom app such as racing... I would probably use an oil designed for racing.
The needs are somewhat different than a backpack blower or chainsaw.

For a stock bike putt putting around that recommends JASO FD.. I would use jaso FD.. tons of good options..
and as mentioned it might be about engine cleanliness not "emissions"

Although this redline picture made me laugh.


For 9.64 this is a good option from a trusted brand with fuel stabilizers
I mix it with 90 octane ethanol free gas.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/VP-Racing-Fuels-2-Cycle-2T-Full-Synthetic-Oil-16-oz-2907/101843405?

 

[Mackelroy]

Dirt Bikes are going to have a lot more load on the engine than lawn equipment. I use Amsoil Dominator or Interceptor in our dirt bikes and I have had good luck with it in a Stihl Blower as well. Engines run clean and last as they should. Interceptor says to use where API-TC and JASO FD are specified. Dominator is more of a racing oil, but they don't really spec anything.

Fd does not quote any more pressure capacity than FB only higher detergent.

 

[tmorris1]

Fd does not quote any more pressure capacity than FB only higher detergent.

I know, I was just pointing out that I think there is more to the comparison than just RPMs.

 

[ripcord]

I wouldn't pick FB over FD but I've got a stash of FB I was given that I've been working through since I used up my last bottle of Opti-2. It runs a little smokier, but I won't let that stop me from using it up. It's not going to wear my equipment out any faster.

 

[tmorris1]

I wouldn't pick FB over FD but I've got a stash of FB I was given that I've been working through since I used up my last bottle of Opti-2. It runs a little smokier, but I won't let that stop me from using it up. It's not going to wear my equipment out any faster.

It is fine for most outdoor power equipment, but maybe not for dirt bikes with exhaust valves. They can gum up.

 

[lilspenny]

Considering that blowers, chainsaws, brush cutters, etc., which typically use JASO FB (green keepers) oil, tend to rev at least as hard, if not harder, than a 2-stroke bike ridden by an average weekend rider in off-road conditions, would the lubrication requirements be similar for a dirt bike that the manufacturer recommends jaso fd?

I presume the FD rating is strictly for emissions, rather than engine longevity.

(I always use FC/FD regardless - just interested for no particular reason)

FD has more detergent, which will keep internal engine parts cleaner. FB, FC, and FD have the same lubricity standard. It's not all about emissions. Carbon can scar internal engine parts. That being said I've seen dirty 2 stroke engines running 50:1 Red Armor fd rated oil. But.... I've also seen dirty Stihl 4 stroke engines running Stihl Ultra fb rated oil. Of the 2 my choice would be Red Armor because I believe it runs cleaner. I would also run it at 40:1 because I'm anal.

 

[IndyIan]

Dirt bikes are all likely liquid cooled and probably have had a bit more attention paid to how it is running, so maybe its less likely to see as high internal temps as a chainsaw doing firewood, or buried in big cuts?
TBH I can't run my YZ250 all that hard on my trails/tracks, and it gets like 2-3s of truly WO, maybe every 20 seconds on average as I'm in tight stuff most of the time, 2nd and 3rd, and rarely 4th. I run it 32:1 with FB, FD, whatever is available and on sale. The chainsaw gets run far harder doing firewood with 10-15s WO in a cut with a couple seconds in between, and it gets the same gas as the dirt bike. Most of the time I'm running Castrol GO! FB as its cheap and always available. The saw is 24 years old now with still enough compression that I always use the comp release to start it, so I think what I'm doing is fine, and the old yz was right with my neighbors new '21 CRF450 until it topped out 5th, so its healthy enough too!

 

[Japanese]

Most of the time I'm running Castrol GO! FB as its cheap and always available.

Btw, this thread is from May 2023.
For some reason Castrol GO! 2T FB is not widely available in the US any more. I haven't seen it in the stores. I think it was available a few years back, but no more. At least in Illinois. However, I luckily found it on FB marketplace and got 2 cases, but didn't use it yet.

My 2-stroke research oil tells me that FC/FD oils always have lower flash point than FB oils. And that's dictated by the emission, so the FC/FD oils burn cleaner. The OPE (chainsaws, weed eaters, mowers) is run mostly in the woods and less populated areas and that's why their oils are FB rated. The motorcycles are run in cities and densely populated areas and that's why their oils are rated Fc and FD.
2-stroke oils for race bikes are not JASO rated, so that tells me - the JASO rating is mostly emissions oriented.

Are you running your chainsaw at 32:1 as your motorcycle?

By default small displacement engines use more robust oils and run lower ratios - 40, 32, 25, 20:1, because they cannot dissipate heat that well like large displacement engines. On the top of that weed eaters run at about 9K RPM and chainsaws run at 12-13K RPM for prolonged periods of time.

 

[IndyIan]

Btw, this thread is from May 2023.
For some reason Castrol GO! 2T FB is not widely available in the US any more. I haven't seen it in the stores. I think it was available a few years back, but no more. At least in Illinois. However, I luckily found it on FB marketplace and got 2 cases, but didn't use it yet.

My 2-stroke research oil tells me that FC/FD oils always have lower flash point than FB oils. And that's dictated by the emission, so the FC/FD oils burn cleaner. The OPE (chainsaws, weed eaters, mowers) is run mostly in the woods and less populated areas and that's why their oils are FB rated. The motorcycles are run in cities and densely populated areas and that's why their oils are rated Fc and FD.
2-stroke oils for race bikes are not JASO rated, so that tells me - the JASO rating is mostly emissions oriented.

Are you running your chainsaw at 32:1 as your motorcycle?

By default small displacement engines use more robust oils and run lower ratios - 40, 32, 25, 20:1, because they cannot dissipate heat that well like large displacement engines. On the top of that weed eaters run at about 9K RPM and chainsaws run at 12-13K RPM for prolonged periods of time.

Yeah, it kind of makes sense to me, to have the oil not burn so well, then some is still on the cylinder walls, coming out the exhaust too. The YZ powervalve has a drain and some black oil comes out after every ride. When I was a clueless teen I had an IT200 that I ran 20:1 and it went for years on the same top end, but needed the expansion chamber carbon build up burnt out every year, as it would gradually slow down. It seemed to have good compression and power the whole time as long as pipe wasn't too carboned up.

I do mix all the higher performance 2 stroke gas at 32:1 with 93/94 octane for the saw, and the YZ needs something like 97-98 octane not to ping, so it gets a healthy splash of VP Octanium! Again, its just what's available locally as I haven't found a source of 100LL. My oldest son can now ride the YZ so 20l can disappear pretty fast. The top end on the YZ now probably has 100hrs on it and I should put the compression gauge on to see what its got, but it seems quite high still.

 

[Japanese]

I do mix all the higher performance 2 stroke gas at 32:1

32:1 is usually the min. ratio for 125cc, so it will be good enough for your 250. For the chainsaw is plenty of oil too.

I got hooked on the Castrol GO! 2T FB by this Canadian guy who claims the Castrol is the same oil as the Stihl HP.

 

[IndyIan]

32:1 is usually the min. ratio for 125cc, so it will be good enough for your 250. For the chainsaw is plenty of oil too.

I got hooked on the Castrol GO! 2T FB by this Canadian guy who claims the Castrol is the same oil as the Stihl HP.

Sounds good to me, I agree with him, that running 32:1 of something name brand FB, I don't think I'm going to have any oil related internal engine problems? Maybe some extra carbon build up in the YZ pipe? Toning it down a little bit might be a good thing

 

[Japanese]

The JASO FB oils are mineral/conventional 2-stroke oils that cannot cover the JASO FC and FD cleanliness and smokiness standards. The FC/FD specification is covered only by synthetic blend and full synthetic oils. That's it.

 

[lilspenny]

The JASO FB oils are mineral/conventional 2-stroke oils that cannot cover the JASO FC and FD cleanliness and smokiness standards. The FC/FD specification is covered only by synthetic blend and full synthetic oils. That's it.

Stihl Ultra ia a fully synthetic FB.

 

[Japanese]

Stihl Ultra ia a fully synthetic FB.

Probably because it's not ashless and smokes more than the requirements for FC and FD.