Using 5w-20 in place of 5w-30

[Gary Allan]

Your point? That is, engage in dialog ..not rhetoric (factual or otherwise)

You really like this "lead them to the fountain of knowledge and let their thurst be quenched with waters of my choosing" motif instead of just posting it.

(BIG SMILE ..as he retreats out of the room).

 

[Gary Allan]

Let me try that again.

I'm sorry, while I see references to Euro-alloy used under high speed (ultra high speed by our standards) and HEAVY DUTY ..just how does this apply to your average Malibu driver on I-95 ..doing 95? (fill in the blank as needed)??

 

[RedOak]

Fellows, I am not racing this durango at Martinsville or Talladega . Just making several short trips to and from town to haul my two 4 year old twins and 10 year old daughter. They probably would like me to race it though. No towing, hard acceleration, or mud bogging. Run the speed limit and no more. Vehicle is well cared for. I think we can look at all the studies we can to show a bit more wear at higher or lower temps. and they turn out to be a wash. How one handles their vehicles in the maintenance department is key. It is my view that a semi or full synthetic 5w-20 is a all round better oil than convention 5w30's. No one needs to agree or care what I think. I am looking at PP 5w-20. I do not think my rod bearings or crank bearings are going to scream about a bit thinner oil.

 

[RedOak]

The future is in thin oil's for us modern day drivers. Those that run hyped up muscle car then use your 20w-50 or 10w-40 with confidence. We each have our own needs.

 

[Gary Allan]

You mirror the vast majority of drivers out there. Even if you were somewhat abuse and excessive, what can you do in the confines of the capabilities of the engine in 99.99% of the usage? Running @ 75-80mph in my 91 3.0 Vulcan is loafing along. If I could tweak to 95 ..what's going to happen? Nothing. Now if I'm climbing Pike's Peak daily @ WOT and my temp gauge is pegged ..then I've just got the wrong vehicle to be doing that in. I won't be promoting 5w-20 with Duramax and Cummins owners pulling 5th wheels with 8 horses in them ..going up 8% grades ..for 29 miles ..in a headwind ..@ 115F+ in the shade.. (the Froto Baggens epilogue to Rudy)

 

[RedOak]

And another view of mine which could be shot down by the experts.
Look less friction with the 5w-20 means less heat and less wear on a normal factory engine. Why do sprint cup drivers use low viscosity oil's to qualify? Just my two cents. I am not a chemical wiz but less friction means less heat.

 

[RedOak]

Totally agree Gary. Just a normal good 4.7 motor. I think Chrysler builds some of the most durable motors on the market. Yes 5w-20 would not work well in my buddies 08 350 powerstroke pulling a trailer with 10 green round bails. Then go to your 15-40 Rotella.

 

[1sttruck]

"It is my view that a semi or full synthetic 5w-20 is a all round better oil than convention 5w30's."

That's something that I see most thinner oil advocates doing, which is relying upon something like the synthetic blend Motocraft 5w20 at a minimum when advocating a thin oil, but more often suggesting a full synthetic. But even Ford acknowledges that a conventional 5w30 is all around a better oil than 5w20 as there were no cars on an exception list suggesting the use of a thicker oil like there is with 5w20. A good full synthetic 5w30 will be even better.

It's all a matter of wear, small amounts of wear over long periods of time. The article from Europe looked at the benefit of using thinner oils and found that tires offered better payback, in part because there were durability concerns. Ford estimates something like a benefit of 0.6% when using 5w20 over 5w30; which is 0.12 mpg city in any of the Taurus sedans that we're using, a number lots in the noise, and for me one not worth any tradeoff for durability . Assuming that you actually get the 0.6% improvement, which will actually depend upon the specific oil and engine, over a 5000 mile oil change with 20 mpg that's almost 1.5 gal of gas saved. People are spending more using a full synthetic 5w20 for those 'savings' ? You get much more benefit changing driving style, and over the course of an oil change avoiding a trip looking for the best good deal on 5w20.

 

[Gary Allan]

Well, I would surely concede ...that where viscosity has a factor in long term wear, 5w-20 will produce more wear than 5w30.


Your situation, in a vacuum and viewed as a data point of one or two, would appear to bear this out. OTOH, I think if a close examination were performed, we'd find that you're the guy driving Pike's Peak on a daily basis and that the service duty is exception more than other factors. You would find that you're on the fringe of distribution. This is clearly evident with the lack of a sharp upramp in junked 2002+ vehicles in the junkyard with perfectly good transmissions and bodies ..with shot engines. If 5w-20 was the killer that you claim, the Crown Vic would surely not be the taxi cab of choice after 100k+ with 5w-20 lube and living to 200-350k. They would be grenading in droves.

Not that this invalidates your view. It just moves it to the extreme periphery of notation. I'm sure someone lives where their daily commute takes them through Death Valley and they need to do it @ 100+ mph in 135F temps with the AC blasting.

If visc played any significant role in long term wear, then the use of even higher visc fluids would sensibly extend that lifespan even further. So, Bill from Utah, using his cheap 5w30 for 4-5k oil changes ...getting his 225k-250k could see REAL savings in exchange by getting 300-350k if he went to a 10w-40 grade. But he wouldn't, since his current retirement rate is not at the point of failure. His failure rate is probably already in the 350k-400k range ..maybe beyond. Even statistically significant differences between the two, if they in fact exist in high enough numbers to enumerate, are so far out of the realm of typical chassis lifespan that it would be hard to make a case where they justify factoring into oil grade selection.

 

[Titan]

very well put.

 

[toocrazy2yoo]

Dang...I guess if I put 20W-50 in my Hyundai, it'll just last, FOREVER!

Nah, I don't want this one forever. Think I'll keep running the budget 5W-20, 5w30 and 10w30 when they turn up on sale. THAT, along with driving habits, tire pressures and state of tune is the savings to be had. I never bought the claims of higher gas mileage. If it's a demonstrable .6 MPG savings (assuming some strictly controlled conditions to measure that) to run a 5W-20, I wouldn't kill myself to make sure I had 5W-20. I'll run it, I have no problems with it, but as regards fuel economy in a car that already tops nearly 40 MPG in the 55MPH realm? Who cares? Heck, I dunno if I'd even SEE that much gain IF I could control the test.

Man, it's a hair-splitter, eh? If I HAD any hair, that is..

 

[FZ1]

Thinner oil runs cooler than thicker oil. Synthetic runs cooler than conventional. Synthetic flows better than conventional. Synthetic is less likely to sluge than conventional. So I'll take my chances with a synthetic or blend for all of my stuff. Pay your money and take your choice.

 

[Audi Junkie]

You forgot one: Synthetic creates higher wear rates.

 

[1sttruck]

"Not that this invalidates your view. It just moves it to the extreme periphery of notation. I'm sure someone lives where their daily commute takes them through Death Valley and they need to do it @ 100+ mph in 135F temps with the AC blasting."

Crown Vic police cruisers are noted for long long life on 5w20, but even they have had problem spots like timing chains. See below for a comment from a guy replying to '5w20 is required because of tight tolerances'. I'm not suggesting that people use 15w40, I'm not suggesting that they use anything other than what they want to, instead I just want people to acknowledge what seems to be a pretty basic lubrication principle (even though it's a complicated subject). The benefits from using 5w20 over 5w30 are pretty minimal, to the point that it's a kind of bait and switch regarding fuel economy, or putting lipstick on a mileage pig.

http://www.automotivehelper.com/topic723383.htm

We use 15w40 in everything we have. We have about 1400 vehicles and have not lost an engine due to an oil related failure. Sorry Huney1. Just had to throw that in there. We also have no timing chain componet failures on the Crown Victoria as is noted by outside shops. Good luck and keep the pot stirred.

I never said not to use what is recommended from the manufacturer. If I did, please show me where I said anything that says the engineers at a manufacturer does not know any thing. I simply stated we use 15w40 in our fleet of vehicles. In all my personal vehicles, I use what is recommended by the manufacturer. We are a government fleet and purchase oil in bulk quantities and we get lower price on the 15w40 than any other grade. So due to the powers that be, we use the cheapest bid product. We also may not have all the troubles the outside agencies because we do change our oil on a very regular basis. It also differs from the manufacturer's guidelines. But it works for us. I did not mean to ruffle your feathers, but there is always more than one side to the story. You can search the internet and other places and see all the tests that each manufacturer does and their brand is always the best. It is like being in a class on theory. Somethime the theory works in the real world, and sometimes you have to bend the line a little to make tha theory work.

 

[FZ1]

Higher wear rates? Please explain.

 

[lovcom]

Originally Posted By: FZ1
It's stupid not to let the dealer do all work during the warranty period for documentation.


It would be stupid to write what you did! I do all my own maintenence, and have zero problems getting warranty work. Why pay 2, 3, or 4 times more for the Dealer to do the work, and for what? So he can give you a piece of paper saying he did what he did for warranty reasons? Now that is stupid. I can provide documentation while doing it myself, and I save BIG $$ to boot.

 

[Gary Allan]

Neither move is stupid if it makes you feel more protected.

The notion that has some interesting inverted implications is waiting until you're out of warranty to use the oil you want to.

I'll take chances when I have no coverage and everything is on my dime.

 

[Greggy_D]

Originally Posted By: 1sttruck
http://www.automotivehelper.com/topic723383.htm




Ugh. This thread made my head explode. 15w40 is molasses?

 

[FZ1]

Lol.

 

[FZ1]

I just give the dealer my oil and filter. They charge me $10 for labor and I have dealer maintainance records for the subsequent purchaser.