used AUTO-RX now have lifter clatterve

[hate2work]

Originally Posted By: INDYMAC
The first thing I would do is change the oil filter. The ADBV might be failing, or the filter might be full. It's a simple inexpensive way to trouble shoot.


Good point, I have heard many times that changing the filter made a certain noise go away. How it could effect lifter noise, I don't know, but it's worth a shot.

 

[demarpaint]

I would suggest to the OP that if the filter is not clogged up to consider reusing it. I changed filters halfway through an A-Rx clean and rinse phase only to find the filter was exactly the same as any other filter I ever changed. Not heavy, plugged up, or anything else for that matter, perfectly normal, and ready for continued use. Having some odd fear of reusing a filter, from reading about possible leaks etc., I tossed them. Not to smart, a simple look will tell you if it is leaking after reinstallation. They could have easily been used for the full interval. I've since successfully removed drained and reinstalled filters w/o leaks.

Bottom line, check the filter, if you feel it is at fault replace it, if you still have noise save the filter for the next A-Rx cycle. Don't waste your money tossing a good filter, that's all. JMO

 

[INDYMAC]

Is the filter you're using the same filter brand that you used before ARX? You mentioned that there were no noises on start-up before the ARX clean phase. If you changed to a different brand for ARX, just go back to the filter you were using before.

Originally Posted By: hate2work
Originally Posted By: INDYMAC
The first thing I would do is change the oil filter. The ADBV might be failing, or the filter might be full. It's a simple inexpensive way to trouble shoot.


Good point, I have heard many times that changing the filter made a certain noise go away. How it could effect lifter noise, I don't know, but it's worth a shot.

 

[panthermike]

Hope it goes away for you. My old Corolla developed a slight lifter tick in the morning after ARX. It didn't go away, even by the time I sold it. It didn't bother me much though, the motor ran good.

 

[c3po]

Originally Posted By: josephOOO2
This sound has NEVER been there prior to using auto rx.


Then something is going on.

Quote:
Once the car warms up the sound magically goes away until you do another cold start.


I hope you realize that auto-rx has a pour point of about 50 degrees, my observation, since I have used the product tells me the auto-rx is GELLING up and it is restricting your oil flow.

Quote:
I emailed auto rx and they attributed it to "dirt being cleaned"


If that is the case, then your engine would be making noises when its warmed up. I also doubt your engine could be that dirty since you were using Mobil 1

Quote:
I guess my concern is that the auto rx has changed the low temp viscosity and is now causing excess wear until the oil is warm.


I think you bring up a very good point.

 

[joseph0002]

well it warmed up yesterday to about 70 when i did the first cold start of the day.....guess was no tick no clatter. sounded exactly the same as before i ran the auto rx. this morning while in the 30's the clatter was back....so im0 its for sure temperature related. thanks for all the responses everyone

 

[c3po]

Originally Posted By: josephOOO2

well it warmed up yesterday to about 70 when i did the first cold start of the day.....guess was no tick no clatter. sounded exactly the same as before i ran the auto rx


Not surprised, since the auto-rx was above the pour point.

Quote:
this morning while in the 30's the clatter was back....so im0 its for sure temperature related.


I agree 100%, auto-rx in the 30 to 40 degree range is probably like MOLASSES, meaning it is really thick.

Quote:
thanks for all the responses everyone


That is what we are here for, when you are interested in an oil additive that is not affected by temperature and does everything auto-rx does but is alot cheaper, you can PM me.

 

[Trav]

From my own experience i think you may have something with problems occurring at lower temps.

A couple of years ago i put ARX in my expedition AWD transfer case for no other reason to clean it (it had no issues of any kind since new until i put ARX in it),later when the temp dropped and the AWD electric shift motor would not shift until the car had been driven a few miles and the fluid warmed up.
Changed the fluid without ARX and all is well ever since.

I posted about it and was told ARX does nothing to the oils viscosity when mixed,i guess that was not quite correct.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Trav
I posted about it and was told ARX does nothing to the oils viscosity when mixed,i guess that was not quite correct.


I had a hard time wrapping my head around that, since if A-Rx is left out in the cold it has to be heated up to pour it. How could it not have an effect on the oils viscosity when it mixes in with the oil? If I were to ever use the remaining bottle I have it would not be over the winter.

 

[badtlc]

well, theoretically, ARX doesn't mix with the oil nor changes the chemical makeup of the oil. ARX gets pushed around by the oil until it finds dirt/carbon/etc, emulsifies it, then carries the dirt until it gets caught in the filter.

Now if ARX occupies a space in the cold, thickens, it could make it seem like the oil's viscosity itself is altered but it is just the ARX.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: badtlc
well, theoretically, ARX doesn't mix with the oil nor changes the chemical makeup of the oil. ARX gets pushed around by the oil until it finds dirt/carbon/etc, emulsifies it, then carries the dirt until it gets caught in the filter.

Now if ARX occupies a space in the cold, thickens, it could make it seem like the oil's viscosity itself is altered but it is just the ARX.


I thought A-Rx mixed into the oil, at least when I drained it from my engine it was mixed into the oil, it didn't float up or lay down at the bottom of the pan. So what you are saying is it is almost like water and oil, they remain seperate and not mix together? I'm using water as an example to try and understand this, A-Rx is not made from water. Thanks.

 

[Craig in Canada]

From everything I've seen, ARX mixes into the oil in most cases but has trouble doing so if the oil contains esters hence the recommendation to use non-ester oils.

I like how the possible thickening effect of a few ounces of ARX is bad and evil but the thinning effect of a quart of MMO is seen by everyone as an advantage by "helping cold starts". Just sayin'...

The OP's ticking may or may not be the direct influence of ARX. ARX may have changed/cleaned something in the lifter oil channels causing the issue, or not. If a couple of ounces of ARX thicken the oil enough to push the OP's lifters out of spec based solely on viscosity, then IMO they may be pretty borderline to begin with. Also, if the change was purely viscosity increase it should clatter without ARX if it's even another 10F colder - does it?

Has the OP changed his oil filter again to make sure it isn't just the ADBV? We've all read about that happening a few hundred times.

 

[demarpaint]

In cold weather thickening oil is not a good idea at least IMO. Thicker oil is not bad or evil if it is not causing engine noises or hindering oil flow. Truth is we really have no idea what is going on here.

Thinner oil helps cold starts, why would that be a problem? For those who fear oil thinning with the addition of MMO they can always go up a grade in viscosity.

 

[greenjp]

If you have a gallon of oil and a bottle of AutoRX in the sump, you've got about 8% AutoRX. I don't know what the viscosity of AutoRX is, but let's say it's a straight 50. Some simple math estimates that it would increase a 5w30 up to a 9W-32. I'll leave it to the individual to form their own opinion about what effect that may or may not have.

jeff

 

[demarpaint]

It is the xW number that is in question, once the oil is at operating temps it doesn't matter at all. Try putting a bottle of A-Rx in the freezer and pouring it. I'm really not sure if simple math will lead to an accurate answer, mixing it into oil and calculating the effect if any would yeild a better answer.

 

[c3po]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
It is the xW number that is in question, once the oil is at operating temps it doesn't matter at all. Try putting a bottle of A-Rx in the freezer and pouring it.


I will put a bottle of auto-rx in the freezer for 12 hours and then report back.

 

[calvin1]

Originally Posted By: c3po
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
It is the xW number that is in question, once the oil is at operating temps it doesn't matter at all. Try putting a bottle of A-Rx in the freezer and pouring it.


I will put a bottle of auto-rx in the freezer for 12 hours and then report back.
IME auto-rx gets very thick very quickly. I had some in my car to measure into my crankcase and even though the temperature was in the 20s the auto-rx had to be squeezed out of the bottle. After seeing that I will always make sure to add it to my cars after they're hot and let it run for 5-10 minutes to make sure the auto-rx isn't sitting in a clump under my valve cover.

EDIT: However, I'm not saying that I think auto-rx is going to make much difference in overall viscosity. Once its dispersed in the oil at the 2 or 3 oz per quart dose I don't see how it could make enough of a difference. There are other more likely reasons why the valve-train would make more noise than a slight increase in viscosity. There's more variation within each grade than what you'll see by adding auto-rx at the correct dose.

 

[demarpaint]

I see your point, but something is going on. badtlc suggested that A-Rx doesn't mix with the oil, if that is the case then the product could be reacting the same in the engine when cold as it does in the the bottle. I never mixed oil and water together and put them in the freezer, but I have a feeling they would separate and the water would react just like water would in a freezer. Can any comment on that?

 

[Quest]

to c3PO:

perhaps you can take this opportunity to do a much better (controlled) test of AutoRx and then report back to us with your findings:

Put them all in the freezer for 24+hrs and then perform the pour-point test onto plastic drinking cups to see how "thick" it is?


batch A: straight AutoRx in original bottle only.

batch B: a known name brand of 5W30 (or 5W20) in it's original quart bottle? (you can use Walmart SuperTech 5W20 as a good, reasonably priced example)

batch c: mix 3oz of AutoRx into a fresh (virgin)quart bottle of similar viscosity, same brand as batch B and then mix them well.

and see how the 3 batches work out afterwards?

*curious*

Q.

 

[chevrofreak]

Heavy doses of Auto RX are better left for warmer times of the year. If your oil isn't getting up to operating temperature and staying there, you won't get as much cleaning.