United moving HQ to Denver?

[edyvw]

@Astro14
Does it make sense? There is no doubt there is an exodus of corporations from Chicago and that CO is attractive, but... That would be big blow to Chicago.

United Airlines buying land in Denver as it pursues growth strategy

United Airlines on Friday said it is spending $33 million to buy 113 acres (46 hectares) in Denver as part of its growth strategy.

www.reuters.com

However, the CFO is shutting down that talk (expected) but it seems that he left doors open:

https://www.flyertalk.com/articles/united-increases-interest-in-denver-but-no-hq-move-planned.html

 

[GON]

Of course, UAL is leaving Chicago. No reason whatsoever for any publicly traded corporation to have its HQ in Illinois. Not a single benefit, but a huge exposure and liability.

Allegations of Breach of Fiduciary Duties


Lawsuits brought against directors and officers of corporate entities often involve allegations of a breach of one or more of fiduciary duties. Those who serve on the board of directors are required to act in the best interest of the shareholders and to maximize the company’s profits. Corporate officers and directors are charged with specific fiduciary duties in their service to the organization, including:

• A Duty of Loyalty and Good Faith
• A Duty of Care

The duty of care requires that directors and officers use the same degree of diligence, inquiry, and skill in performing their duties as a prudent person would use in similar circumstances. Directors and officers must make informed, good-faith decisions to further the organization’s purposes.

No way any reasonable person can justify the long term static placement of a corporate headquarters of a publicly traded corporation in Illinois. The untenable liabilities of the state will continue on the path of increases in taxation of the remaining corporations and residents of Illinois. Illinois will also suffer a "brain drain", where its best and brightest residents have and will continue to flee the state.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

IL is a perfect example that just because you’re a billionaire doesn’t mean you have any clue on how to actually improve peoples’ lives, or even just leave them alone, for that matter.

 

[Astro14]

I’m not aware of any concrete plan to move the corporate headquarters...but any corporation that fails to consider options like that is run by fools, so purchasing the land may be a way to enable that as a future contingency.

However, we have training facilities for flight attendants in Chicago, Houston, San Francisco, and Denver.

Further, our Denver training facility with the construction of its newest building will have nearly 60 full motion, simulators, and we are built out. That facility is landlocked. There isn’t enough room for the staff to park their cars as it is right now.

We are capable of training about 2500 pilots a year, with the new simulators, and more instructors, we should be able to train about 3,000 per year, and there is desire to increase that throughput as we take deliveries of about 100 aircraft every year and have several hundred pilots retiring at the mandatory age of 65.

So, as we look to the future, the consolidation of training activity for flight attendants might be one possible use of the land, expansion of the training facility for pilots would be another possible use, and corporate headquarters would be yet another. A final possibility is a lot of the staff that manages things like operations, IT and other work to move from Chicago.

We lease several floors in Willis tower. We have quite a few employees there and Chicago isn’t cheap, from a cost of office space, or cost of living perspective.

We’re well over 100,000 employees at this point, and Denver is a popular place for our employees to live. Colorado’s great.

 

[c502cid]

All, please do not listen to Astro about Colorado being great. It is sub zero cold 350+days a year, and is a windy barren wasteland. Also, it is full, there is no room for anyone.
Thank you.

 

[GON]

All, please do not listen to Astro about Colorado being great. It is sub zero cold 350+days a year, and is a windy barren wasteland. Also, it is full, there is no room for anyone.
Thank you.

Some studies are showing Colorado as the second highest state for single family home costs, only behind Hawaii at number one most expensive. These studies show Colorado housing now more expensive than California. I am sure some studies still show California as number two highest home costs.

There is no denying that corporate moves to Colorado from the Midwest is another reason for Colorado having such a pricey and rising housing cost. My Daughter closed on her second home in the greater Denver area just two years ago, and she believes the home has risen over 200k in value since closing, and if she listed the home she would get above asking price and a contra t on the home in under eight business hours.

 

[CKN]

All, please do not listen to Astro about Colorado being great. It is sub zero cold 350+days a year, and is a windy barren wasteland. Also, it is full, there is no room for anyone.
Thank you.

I will say the same thing I said last time. As far as people moving to Colorado-and that state being on the radar of those moving from California and other places, that train has left the station.

BTW-how much has YOUR HOME gone up in value the last 10 years??

 

[edyvw]

Some studies are showing Colorado as the second highest state for single family home costs, only behind Hawaii at number one most expensive. These studies show Colorado housing now more expensive than California. I am sure some studies still show California as number two highest home costs.

There is no denying that corporate moves to Colorado from the Midwest is another reason for Colorado having such a pricey and rising housing cost. My Daughter closed on her second home in the greater Denver area just two years ago, and she believes the home has risen over 200k in value since closing, and if she listed the home she would get above asking price and a contra t on the home in under eight business hours.

There is a reason for that: economy!
The cost of living doesn't go just like that, for no reason.
One of the biggest selling points by AL to move the space force from CO was the cost of living. BUT, having lived there for 8 years, there is a reason for that. Also, a state that loses one congressional seat bcs. depopulation, as small as AL is, is going to affect housing. As soon as the decision was made to keep the space force in Colorado Springs, many aerospace companies decided to move here, and that is coming after a huge influx of hi-tech companies just on a regular basis.
I work closely with military organizations here, including SF, and let me tell you, no one shed a tear that they won't be moving.
So, housing prices are reflective of the economy. The real issue is not that, the real issue is wages. Are wages fallowing cost? That is key.

 

[edyvw]

I will say the same thing I said last time. As far as people moving to Colorado-and that state being on the radar of those moving from California and other places, that train has left the station.

BTW-how much has YOUR HOME gone up in value the last 10 years??

Denver area is having some serious growth pain problems, and currently, people are actually depopulating Denver. On the other hand, everything north, and especially south of Denver (Colorado Springs, Castle Rock etc.) are having a huge increase in population. Many of these cities, especially small ones have more of a mental crisis adjusting to the fact that people are moving in. Colorado Springs had that crisis some 8-10yrs ago. I was once talking with a city council member at some event, and he was asking me when I loved etc. and how I liked it. After I answered something, he said: Don't you love living in a small city? I am thinking: dude, your small city has half a million people, the most populated county in CO. That thinking has a lot of consequences in decision-making.

But values are through the roof. I purchased a house in 2014, and it doubled the value. Usually, rental properties are 98% full, which is a huge strain on housing availability. Colorado Springs is the second most saturated city with federal employees after Washington DC, so housing is a real pain.

So, as @Astro14 pointed, there are huge opportunities here, and CO is generally very attractive not only from a business perspective but to actually retain employees due to quality of life. That is now a major thing! People don't want to live so they can work, they want to work so they can live.

 

[GON]

There is a reason for that: economy!
The cost of living doesn't go just like that, for no reason.
One of the biggest selling points by AL to move the space force from CO was the cost of living. BUT, having lived there for 8 years, there is a reason for that. Also, a state that loses one congressional seat bcs. depopulation, as small as AL is, is going to affect housing. As soon as the decision was made to keep the space force in Colorado Springs, many aerospace companies decided to move here, and that is coming after a huge influx of hi-tech companies just on a regular basis.
I work closely with military organizations here, including SF, and let me tell you, no one shed a tear that they won't be moving.
So, housing prices are reflective of the economy. The real issue is not that, the real issue is wages. Are wages fallowing cost? That is key.

Good information, thanks.

I was told the true center of gravity of moving Space Force from CO to AL was culture. If the Space Force stayed in CO, Space Force would essentially still be a Air Force entity. By moving Space to AL, Space Force could seperate itself from the Air Force and its culture. An interesting nugget about Redstone Arsenal, AL- there are more retired general officers within 30 miles of Redstone Arsenal than any other location in the USA. I find that statistic hard to believe, but it is a published statistic.

If I was King for a day I would have moved Space to where it was the only game in town. Green Bay, Wisconsin, Grand rapids, MI, Bismark, ND, Ceader Rapids, IA ... All locations with good work ethic and significantly lower costs of living. of course the argument is you can't attract top civilian "cyber" talent on a large scale to those places.

 

[GON]

Denver area is having some serious growth pain problems, and currently, people are actually depopulating Denver. On the other hand, everything north, and especially south of Denver (Colorado Springs, Castle Rock etc.) are having a huge increase in population. Many of these cities, especially small ones have more of a mental crisis adjusting to the fact that people are moving in. Colorado Springs had that crisis some 8-10yrs ago. I was once talking with a city council member at some event, and he was asking me when I loved etc. and how I liked it. After I answered something, he said: Don't you love living in a small city? I am thinking: dude, your small city has half a million people, the most populated county in CO. That thinking has a lot of consequences in decision-making.

But values are through the roof. I purchased a house in 2014, and it doubled the value. Usually, rental properties are 98% full, which is a huge strain on housing availability. Colorado Springs is the second most saturated city with federal employees after Washington DC, so housing is a real pain.

So, as @Astro14 pointed, there are huge opportunities here, and CO is generally very attractive not only from a business perspective but to actually retain employees due to quality of life. That is now a major thing! People don't want to live so they can work, they want to work so they can live.

My Daughter lives in the Castle Rock/ Castle Pines area. They are building stick townhomes direct border on the interstate a few miles from her. We looked at the townhomes. Essentially 800k for a very high density, low end townhome on the interstate, all three floors so they can build more with less land, and I can guarantee you will hear everything the neighbor next door is doing. The parking is unbelievably tight. All for 800k, and they are about sold out.

High density housing usally equates to a very high burden on taxpayers in the long run for services and infrastructure. Developer makes great $$$, but more often than not exisiting homeowners end up with a large property tax bill over time.

I am not buying a three story townhome at my age......

 

[LDB]

From one pit to another pit, just with scenery.

 

[mrsilv04]

Of course, UAL is leaving Chicago. No reason whatsoever for any publicly traded corporation to have its HQ in Illinois. Not a single benefit, but a huge exposure and liability.

Oh, but we're getting a $2 billion Chinese-owned EV battery factory in south suburban Chicago. The US's newest Superfund site, just waiting to happen.

 

[DirectRejection]

UA has greatly diminished cargo operations at SFO & EWR.

 

[mrsilv04]

Some studies are showing Colorado as the second highest state for single family home costs, only behind Hawaii at number one most expensive. These studies show Colorado housing now more expensive than California. I am sure some studies still show California as number two highest home costs.

I watch a guy who has a YouTube channel in the Greeley, CO area. He buys houses that need of $50,000 in repairs for $200,000, rehabs them, and then sells them for $400,000... all day long. The cheapest of studio aparrtments are $1,000 a month.

 

[edyvw]

My Daughter lives in the Castle Rock/ Castle Pines area. They are building stick townhomes direct border on the interstate a few miles from her. We looked at the townhomes. Essentially 800k for a very high density, low end townhome on the interstate, all three floors so they can build more with less land, and I can guarantee you will hear everything the neighbor next door is doing. The parking is unbelievably tight. All for 800k, and they are about sold out.

High density housing usally equates to a very high burden on taxpayers in the long run for services and infrastructure. Developer makes great $$$, but more often than not exisiting homeowners end up with a large property tax bill over time.

I am not buying a three story townhome at my age......

I know what you are talking about. Yesterday I passed them with my wife and kids and we were talking about how insane it looks.
But, listen, if there is demand, they will build it. Infrastructure is a burden, but more people pay more taxes, and taxes serve to provide services.

As for existing homeowners and property taxes, everyone was ecstatic with huge increase in value. You could not have a conversation with a neighbor without someone boasting about how smart they are bcs. their house gain $$$$ in value. Now, same people are loudest about how the government is stealing their money. ANy rational person should anticipate an increase in taxes if the market is hot.

 

[edyvw]

I watch a guy who has a YouTube channel in the Greeley, CO area. He buys houses that need of $50,000 in repairs for $200,000, rehabs them, and then sells them for $400,000... all day long. The cheapest of studio aparrtments are $1,000 a month.

Investors are the biggest issue. Last month 20% of housing purchases in the US were investments. That is hiking up value and making housing unaffordable for many.

 

[edyvw]

Good information, thanks.

I was told the true center of gravity of moving Space Force from CO to AL was culture. If the Space Force stayed in CO, Space Force would essentially still be a Air Force entity. By moving Space to AL, Space Force could seperate itself from the Air Force and its culture. An interesting nugget about Redstone Arsenal, AL- there are more retired general officers within 30 miles of Redstone Arsenal than any other location in the USA. I find that statistic hard to believe, but it is a published statistic.

If I was King for a day I would have moved Space to where it was the only game in town. Green Bay, Wisconsin, Grand rapids, MI, Bismark, ND, Ceader Rapids, IA ... All locations with good work ethic and significantly lower costs of living. of course the argument is you can't attract top civilian "cyber" talent on a large scale to those places.

Strategically, it does not make ANY sense to have so many military installations in one city.
However, military installations are, first and foremost, political issues! People can talk about all kinds of reasons; it is absolutely a political issue bcs. it brings money!

As for those who work in SF, other than skiing and hiking, there were other pressing, more serious issues that I won't discuss here. I have several very close friends working for SF as part of the military and state department, and they were ready to get out if AL was chosen.

 

[PimTac]

there are huge opportunities here, and CO is generally very attractive not only from a business perspective but to actually retain employees due to quality of life. That is now a major thing! People don't want to live so they can work, they want to work so they can live.

This is true. When a close friends son was flying for United he looked forward to time in Denver. He could go hiking and enjoy the scenery. In Chicago that wasn’t possible at all.

 

[I<3oil]

Oh, but we're getting a $2 billion Chinese-owned EV battery factory in south suburban Chicago. The US's newest Superfund site, just waiting to happen.

KS is getting a $4bil Panasonic/EV battery factory near KC. )