Bet it’s close to what my daughter (a surgeon) often thinks about when interacting with patients,
“So, you think your Google search is equivalent to my Medical Degree?”
UA flight #328 loses engine over Broomfield CO.
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“So, you think your Google search is equivalent to my Medical Degree?”
MolaKule
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I and two other scientist/engineers were on the Structural Dynamics Team for the structural and dynamic's analysis on the Containment Ring (Fan Case) for the various engines on the B777.
https://aerospaceamerica.aiaa.org/departments/containing-a-blade-out/
The primary purpose of the Containment Ring (Fan Case) is to keep a failed Fan Blade from going into the fuselage and damaging wing structures, and in this case, it appears to have done its job.
See Section 2.2 of this paper:
https://www.colorado.edu/faculty/ka...27_am_-_asen_5063_2015_final_report_okura.pdf
In the case of United 328, it appears one fan blade separated near the root of the fan disk and caused a domino effect feeding chunks of debris into the engine interior and around the core breaking fuel and oil lines creating the fire.
Good pilots with cool heads ensure a safe landing.
https://aerospaceamerica.aiaa.org/departments/containing-a-blade-out/
The primary purpose of the Containment Ring (Fan Case) is to keep a failed Fan Blade from going into the fuselage and damaging wing structures, and in this case, it appears to have done its job.
See Section 2.2 of this paper:
https://www.colorado.edu/faculty/ka...27_am_-_asen_5063_2015_final_report_okura.pdf
In the case of United 328, it appears one fan blade separated near the root of the fan disk and caused a domino effect feeding chunks of debris into the engine interior and around the core breaking fuel and oil lines creating the fire.
Good pilots with cool heads ensure a safe landing.
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Very true Astro.
google is great for many things ( how to videos on YouTube ) but it’s contributing to that problem .....” a little knowledge is a dangerous thing” in some situations.
Our airline realizes that problem ( internet info ) and strictly forbids non approved sources of information on the internet with our pilots. They choose which ones are trusted and may be referenced.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2026
When I was teaching undergraduates I always told them a story of a kid from Mali (there are a lot of sources about this case) that built windmill in village using alternators from junk SUV's he found. He provided enough electricity to his desert village for houses to run light bulbs. So, when humanitarian organizations saw that, they "snatched" him, MIT, Harvard etc. showered him with scholarships. He saw computer first time, I think, when he visited US. So, he ends up being guest on Jon Stewart show. Stewart asks him: what did you think of computer? Kid said: where was this guy Google when I needed it.
Google is an exceptional tool. But, we as a society better figure out other side of a coin soon. Documentary on Netflix "Social Dilemma" is really good in explaining problems with social media etc.
I think problem is in expectations that "knowledge will be delivered" next day, like Amazon. People want everything "next day" including knowledge. In 1979 (I think) graduate student at Princeton did Master thesis about how to build atomic bomb using university library (if I am off a bit with story, excuse me). So, committee said: yeah, let see how this works. He delivered thesis, and first thing committee chair did after reading it was calling FBI. Student did due diligence and spent time learning. "Little knowledge" does not come from lack of sources, but our society expecting great results with minimum effort, especially today in US where education is so expensive, that most people expect pay for play.
"Captain" Joe and similar are playing directly into that and are part of the problem, regardless whether their video is accurate or not. They are "training" people to collect partial information in several minutes. Pandemic is perfect example of that. And that is not problem just in US, but generally world. Partial information, not being able to read data, information provided etc.
I always read comments to these stories. When this happened in Denver, people on our neighborhood Facebook page (I am member as sometimes there is good info, but mostly bcs. gives very good insight into society we live in) started to share news. Comments below that? You would think my neighborhood is strictly composed of pilots and jet engine engineers.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2026
Oh, but many do.
And I think in the US due to tort laws, in medical field this is really problematic. There is always option. Doctors giving patients options.
When my first child was born in CO, he had extremely high bilirubin, mostly due to altitude+mom being Asian (there is some connection there). So, doctor came and said he needs liquid, so it is breast milk (my wife is not producing yet so donor) or formula. I asked: OK, what do you recommend? Well both are good. I was trying to squeeze answer for 5 minutes. Then I said, making educated guess, OK, donor milk. And doctor said: yes, that is best. I told this doctor: man, you are expert here not me. Tell me this is best, this is what you should do. But.....
MolaKule
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Is there a chance we can get back to the technical aspects of this flight and Aviation in general?
It seems we're going off the reservation with these sociological comments.
It seems we're going off the reservation with these sociological comments.
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Yes, great engineering. We have seen what can happen when blades are not contained.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2026
Lol. My fault.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2026
I think that there are some photos of damaged wing.
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As far as I know, none ( blades ) went though the cabin ( Southwest airlines ) or caused any secondary failures ( hydra lines it, etc ....United DC 10 Sioux City ).
might be pretty hard to contain everything in a catastrophic engine failure as we saw with parts hitting the ground.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2026
I was referring to UA328.
The DC10 had hydraulics cut as far as I know by fan disintegration.
But, I absolutely agree. Not sure how you contain everything.
United 322 came up a few times in my college introductory materials science class. The professor teaching the class specialized in metal fatigue analysis. The class was an overview taken by engineering students in many different disciplines, but what I remember most about his class was the discussion on the tradeoffs with strength, ductility, hardness, and toughness. That fan failed slowly, but he talked about how to tell the difference between metals damaged during a collision or through fatigue. His (likely just hypothetical) example was of an old woman crashing in a car but her attorneys blaming it on the failure of of an axle. So the axle is examined and they look to see if it had a clean break or a pattern at the fracture that suggested a slowly developing crack that eventually completely failed.
He worked a lot of aircraft materials too - especially superalloys for turbine blades. I don't know if it was reassuring when he said that civilian aircraft were allowed a limit on crack size that was more than for military aircraft. He didn't quite go into the details.
MolaKule
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One NTSB interview by various news sources:
https://www.12news.com/video/travel...amage/73-bc0b920e-34d0-44f4-90ee-99ef4a15d5b4
https://www.12news.com/video/travel...amage/73-bc0b920e-34d0-44f4-90ee-99ef4a15d5b4
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Great engineering isn’t the same as being able design things to protect them from all safety scenarios.
Had that aircraft experienced a fan blade failure and penetrated though the cabin while flying over high mountains ( flying down to South American ) , it could have killed someone while simultaneously further distracting the crew with an emergency descent requiring it to get down ( when safe ) to 10,000 before running out off oxygen and possible other complex secondary failures due to other systems being damaged by loose fan blades.
imagine it going through the Cabin while 3 hours from the nearest adequate diversion over the ocean. Emergency descent , 10,000 with possibly a huge hole in the side of the plane.
I had a door blow off an airplane once but luckily we were on a ferry flight empty. A year later the safety investigators found it in some farm field. Farmer found it. That happened with another airline, not my current one.
Had that aircraft experienced a fan blade failure and penetrated though the cabin while flying over high mountains ( flying down to South American ) , it could have killed someone while simultaneously further distracting the crew with an emergency descent requiring it to get down ( when safe ) to 10,000 before running out off oxygen and possible other complex secondary failures due to other systems being damaged by loose fan blades.
imagine it going through the Cabin while 3 hours from the nearest adequate diversion over the ocean. Emergency descent , 10,000 with possibly a huge hole in the side of the plane.
I had a door blow off an airplane once but luckily we were on a ferry flight empty. A year later the safety investigators found it in some farm field. Farmer found it. That happened with another airline, not my current one.
MolaKule
Staff member
We can envision all kinds of serious scenarios but according to the preliminary NTSB reports the Containment Ring functioned as designed as per the chairman's statement in the interview.
MolaKule
Staff member
Are you referring the NTSB chairman's statements when you said, "He" or to someone else?
He = "Captian Joe". In his video, was he wrong or off in any way of what he said about this indedent and how to handle emergency in-flight situations? If he was off or wrong, then who's the more expert that shows he was wrong in the information he gave in the video.
MolaKule
Staff member
Probable cause:
Inadequate consideration given to human factors limitations in the inspection and quality control procedures used by United Airlines' engine overhaul facility which resulted in the failure to detect a fatigue crack originating from a previously undetected metallurgical defect located in a critical area of the stage 1 fan disk that was manufactured by General Electric Aircraft Engines. The separation, fragmentation, and forceful discharge of uncontained stage 1 fan rotor assembly parts from the No. 2 engine led to the loss of the three hydraulic systems that powered the airplane's flight controls.
One can go to the investigation report for details:
https://www.faa.gov/about/initiativ...eway_airport.sioux_city.lowa.july_19.1989.pdf
MolaKule
Staff member
I recommend we wait for further analysis from the NTSB.
Preliminary presuppositions from those outside the NTSB's fields of expertise are just that, preliminary.
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