Two Snubbies With No Hammers

[Bob in Utah]

Hammerless revolvers are known for heavy trigger pulls

Not knowing your shooting experience

I’d suggest a 9mm in semi auto from a known manufacturer

Learn the trigger reset….carry on

 

[football]

What a crock of .
Were you ever a cop that relied on a duty sidearm or just another guy that lives his life from YouTube clips?

I was a cop. Now semi retired BUT still carry a gun for a living. Issued a Sig P320 currently. I was the top shot at my agency. For every year I was there, I outshot everyone (from the academy days until I retired) I received an award for shooting excellence. That has never changed and still applies to this day with my currently issued P320.

No need for personal attacks. I am VERY (extremely) educated on firearms. I live, breath, sleep them, and have for decades. I most likely with almost 100% certainty, have a larger firearms collections and experience on tactics/training/guns/gun maintenance than 99.8% of the folks on this board. My ammo budget, just for me to shoot, is north of $15,000 a year. I shoot a lot. I train a lot. I know guns.

Debate the facts if you would like.

 

[football]

You don't know what you're talking about...but all the best basing your self protection on videos from Gun Sam.

Read my post above. Debate the facts if you want. I can educate you and others. If you disagree with me, tell me why. Lets hear some facts.

 

[football]

Well, it ain't that simple son. I'd argue that given both platforms, in good working condition, and maintained properly, have pretty much an equal chance of being reliable in a gunfight situation. Not 10-1 less reliable. I'd also argue that the reason for police agencies to switch from a revolver to a semi, or shun revolver use at all, was due to lack of reliability. Capacity and better ballistics in semi auto ammo were the main reasons most (if not all) made the switch. But I won't argue with someone on the internet, might be hard to tell which is the idiot .

Many large agencies (State and Federal) tested this back in the 90's.

They all came to the same conclusion.

Semi auto is far more reliable. They actually TESTED this. Verified it. Compare ten revolvers with ten semi-auto pistols. 1000-10,000 rounds down range through each (differing test had differing parameters). Published the results.

Revolvers have way more jams and issues than a 9MM semi auto. The semi autos were pretty good back then (Sig P226, Beretta 92FS, Glock 17, Smith 59 series or similar) and are still good today (modern striker fired)

 

[football]

Educating is better than insulting. Presenting information and substantiating it with evidence and your real world experience is a mature way communicate an argument effectively. Or maybe asking probing questions to suss out correct answers and help people figure it out on their own.

I come from a technical background so I’m accustom to people presenting information based on data and evidence. Not simply an appeal to authority. So yeah one could say that I’m a tad sensitive to immature presenting of information, ad hominem attack, and elitism.

1000% correct post.

Facts are facts. If you have them, post them. We all form opinions based on our experiences. Problem is, some people lack a vast array of experience. They only know what they know.

 

[football]

But a revolver, by it's very design is simply more reliable than a semi automatic pistol, fact, not myth.

Now that can actually be verified with scientific testing. Which, as I said above, has already been done.

Unfortunately for your argument, it just doesn't square with the factual data. Semi auto pistols are far more reliable.

Maybe in YOUR hands, in your experience, revolvers are more reliable. But that says something about YOUR abilities, or lack thereof, and not the mechanical abilities of the actual firearms.

Todays educational word of the day is confirmation bias, people’s tendency to process information by looking for, or interpreting, information that is consistent with their existing beliefs. This biased approach to decision making is largely unintentional, and it results in a person ignoring information that is inconsistent with their beliefs. These beliefs can include a person’s expectations in a given situation and their predictions about a particular outcome. People are especially likely to process information to support their own beliefs when an issue is highly important or self-relevant.

 

[billt460]

Revolvers were in use in many militaries, and most all police departments 50 to 70 years ago. They served their purpose just fine. Little by little semi auto handguns have pretty much taken over since.

There is a reason for that. Improved reliability. Larger ammunition capacity. Much quicker reloading. (There is only one Jerry Miculek). And newer, higher powered calibers. The 10 MM Auto and .357 Sig as just 2 examples.

The biggest example you have of this notable changeover took place after the 1985 FBI Miami shootout. Afterwards the FBI changed from revolvers to S&W 10 MM Auto pistols. (Agents in that shootout were killed execution style, while caught trying to reload their revolvers).

Today most all police depts. State, Federal, and Border Patrol rely on semi auto handguns in one caliber, or brand. The revolver didn't all of a sudden, "get bad". It's just that modern auto pistols got much better, popular, and far more plentiful.

And Glock has led in that department more than anyone else by simplifying them. And making them extremely rugged, dependable, and very cost effective. (Very important to large scale military and law enforcement purchases).

The revolver has its place. And many still prefer it. It's just there are far more auto pistols available that make choosing one more difficult. A bit like trying to find a new car today without air conditioning, and having crank open windows. The desirability has simply fallen off with most, in favor of something better.

 

[alarmguy]

If you were going to buy a new compact 38 and or 9 mm what would you prefer?

Wife and I used to go to the range a lot now they just sit in a safe. We have a 38, 9 mm and a 380 they are all Taurus. I’m fine with the brand because we never had an issue with any plus a lifetime warranty however, with that said, sometimes I entertain the idea of getting rid of all three and just one good reliable, small 38 Special or 9 mm. The 9 mm might make more sense if I want to carry on any particular day, also easier to shoot for my wife who’s a pretty darn good shot with a 9 mm

With that said for home defense, I just love something about revolvers as unpractical as that might seem due to their limited amount of cartridges they could hold, but then again if you have to fire off more than five shots, then you got a problem.
I’m not at all opposed to 9 mm as long as it’s small and compact
I just love the mechanics of revolvers

Ahhhh … yeah there is one thing in a panic situation, more so my wife maybe? If you limp wrist a compact 9mm and in that case, the revolver will be more reliable.

OK, so does anyone have any opinions?
How about a revolver without a lot of recoil , we’ve only fired 38 specials, I never even thought of the idea of a 9 mm revolver?

 

[Cropduster172]

If you were going to buy a new compact 38 and or 9 mm what would you prefer?

Wife and I used to go to the range a lot now they just sit in a safe. We have a 38, 9 mm and a 380 they are all Taurus. I’m fine with the brand because we never had an issue with any plus a lifetime warranty however, with that said, sometimes I entertain the idea of getting rid of all three and just one good reliable, small 38 Special or 9 mm. The 9 mm might make more sense if I want to carry on any particular day, also easier to shoot for my wife who’s a pretty darn good shot with a 9 mm

With that said for home defense, I just love something about revolvers as unpractical as that might seem due to their limited amount of cartridges they could hold, but then again if you have to fire off more than five shots, then you got a problem.
I’m not at all opposed to 9 mm as long as it’s small and compact
I just love the mechanics of revolvers

Ahhhh … yeah there is one thing in a panic situation, more so my wife maybe? If you limp wrist a compact 9mm and in that case, the revolver will be more reliable.

OK, so does anyone have any opinions?
How about a revolver without a lot of recoil , we’ve only fired 38 specials, I never even thought of the idea of a 9 mm revolver?

Look at some prior posts about 9mm revolvers...moon clips vs speed loaders...just no... and you're not gaining any balastic advantage.

If you like Taurus...look at the Taurus G2C.
Inexpensive. Accurate. Reliable. Good capacity.
I have and frequently carry the PT111 G2 an earlier version.
I've fired thousands of rounds of all kinds of 9mm through it, even cheap aluminum case stuff. Never a FTF or FTE.

Up next for me is a Ruger Security .380 to replace the complete garbage Bersa Thunder I purchased 10 years ago. It's a paperweight.

 

[Greenbeforeblue]

Anyone considering a revolver, especially a light one in 9mm would do well to research "crimp jump". Nine millimeter projectiles are not crimped into the tapered case. With heavy loads and/or light revolvers the projectiles can jump forward out of the case (not completely out) but sufficiently enough to protrude past the cylinder face. This will prevent the cylinder from rotating.

Adding another chance to make a defensive firearm inoperable is, IMO, not a good idea. Again, in my opinion, a revolver should be in a caliber designed for revolvers when it comes to self defense.

 

[Barry in IN]

Neither revolvers or autos are “better” in the general sense. They each have advantages in different areas.

I usually carry a full size semiauto IWB.
I also usually carry a second gun. That’s a revolver.

I generally shoot autos a little better. It’s easier to mount a red dot on most autos. Most times, they hold more ammo and reload faster, although the importance of that might be debated by some.

So why would I carry a revolver at all?
Because they are better suited to some roles for me. Second guns usually get carried in less than ideal places; the ankle for example, or maybe the pocket. On the ankle, a gun is exposed to a lot of dirt, dust, and grit that’s stirred up when we walk. Pockets are lint generators. Even with a pocket holster, I find lint in every nook and cranny of the gun.

While autos are incredibly reliable, this is one of the worst environments for them. Being finger-powered, revolvers deal with this better. YOU make them function. Add in that compact autos usually sacrifice a little reliability from their full-size variants, and revolvers are my choice here.

Another advantage to revolvers in the pocket, is their shape. They blend into contours better than blocky autos, and the cylinder holds the pocket a little bit clear of the grip so it’s easier to grasp quickly.

In the single stack compact autos- the truly small ones comparable to small revolvers- the mag capacity is so close to revolvers it doesn’t matter as much. For example, a Glock 43 has a six round magazine. It is also a couple ounces more than S&W Airweight Centennials.

So yeah, an auto can be better at some things, but a revolver can be better at others.

 

[Barry in IN]

Anyone considering a revolver, especially a light one in 9mm would do well to research "crimp jump". Nine millimeter projectiles are not crimped into the tapered case. With heavy loads and/or light revolvers the projectiles can jump forward out of the case (not completely out) but sufficiently enough to protrude past the cylinder face. This will prevent the cylinder from rotating.

Adding another chance to make a defensive firearm inoperable is, IMO, not a good idea. Again, in my opinion, a revolver should be in a caliber designed for revolvers when it comes to self defense.

The only time I’ve experienced measurable crimp jump in revolvers shooting 9mm, .40/10mm, or .45 ACP has been in my 9mm LCR when using Blazer ammo. With any defensive ammo or even “better cheap” ammo it has never been a problem.

 

[Cropduster172]

Anyone considering a revolver, especially a light one in 9mm would do well to research "crimp jump". Nine millimeter projectiles are not crimped into the tapered case. With heavy loads and/or light revolvers the projectiles can jump forward out of the case (not completely out) but sufficiently enough to protrude past the cylinder face. This will prevent the cylinder from rotating.

Adding another chance to make a defensive firearm inoperable is, IMO, not a good idea. Again, in my opinion, a revolver should be in a caliber designed for revolvers when it comes to self defense.

I stated in an earlier post that 9mm revolvers are an example of just because you can doesn't mean you should.

 

[alarmguy]

Look at some prior posts about 9mm revolvers...moon clips vs speed loaders...just no... and you're not gaining any balastic advantage.

If you like Taurus...look at the Taurus G2C.
Inexpensive. Accurate. Reliable. Good capacity.
I have and frequently carry the PT111 G2 an earlier version.
I've fired thousands of rounds of all kinds of 9mm through it, even cheap aluminum case stuff. Never a FTF or FTE.

Up next for me is a Ruger Security .380 to replace the complete garbage Bersa Thunder I purchased 10 years ago. It's a paperweight.

Thanks for your input.
We can completely agree on the PT 111 and we have had the same exact experience. There was a time when we would go down to the range every weekend or every other weekend with all three guns discussed below I would say a minimum of 3 to 400 rounds have gone through them.

My wife has a first generation PT 111
She’s a scary good shot with it. It’s it’s dead on reliable, a pleasure to shoot. Years back in our CWP test I think she was second out of the 10 of us and just by a hair missed blowing out the circle in the center of the paper target.

Compared to a revolver and a mini 380 the PT 111 shoots like a Cadillac drives.

I just took all three of them out for a photo.
It’s been over a year since I’ve been to the range and I’m not exactly proud on how dirty they are.

The mini 380 TCP is fantastic in the sense you could literally put it in your pants pocket. The scary part is it’s down right dangerous, you really need to wear eye protection as it shoots the spent shells to the rear. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve come back from a range with a cut on my head. So that would be first to go.

Holding the PT 111 again reminds me how much I love that gun. It’s such a pleasure to shoot and so comfortable in my hand. I used to know it inside and out taking apart and cleaning it but it’s been a while.

The revolver is kind of compact too, and I would say weighs about the same, the recoil can wear you down after a while.

I was seeing something about moon clips and I didn’t know what they are but in a review of a few pistols, the reviewer was kind of a negative on them.

Before we bought any guns, we too looked at the Bersa but ended up with all the above.

After thinking about it, I guess I would be perfectly happy with the PT 111 as a home defense gun. I was just kind of wishing for and I know sort of physically impossible one all-around easy shooting lightweight smaller and easy to carry with a CWP

I really like the mechanics of the revolver, but it’s hard to make a small light revolver, and comfortable to shoot

 

[Barry in IN]

Have we heard from the OP since they posed their questions?

 

[football]

I’m not at all opposed to 9 mm as long as it’s small and compact

For home defense? You want the opposite of compact and small.

First off, small guns are more prone to reliability issues, especially in untrained hands. Larger guns are more forgiving for improper grip and bad form.

Second, smaller guns have more recoil and are slower to get back on target and have slower split times.

For strictly home defense, I typically recommend buying a long gun (first, and always). If you want to stick to a pistol, a full size duty gun. Buy the largest one (Glock 17 size, skip the compact G19 or G26 models) Other full size guns to look at are the CZ P10F, HK VP9A1F, M&P 2.0 full size, PDP, Echelon 4.5, etc.

 

[alarmguy]

For home defense? You want the opposite of compact and small.

First off, small guns are more prone to reliability issues, especially in untrained hands. Larger guns are more forgiving for improper grip and bad form.

Second, smaller guns have more recoil and are slower to get back on target and have slower split times.

For strictly home defense, I typically recommend buying a long gun (first, and always). If you want to stick to a pistol, a full size duty gun. Buy the largest one (Glock 17 size, skip the compact G19 or G26 models) Other full size guns to look at are the CZ P10F, HK VP9A1F, M&P 2.0 full size, PDP, Echelon 4.5, etc.

...

My posts are for something new and different, just thoughts. Maybe an LCR, maybe even a 22LR rim fire.
You know how it goes? Threads in forums sometimes relight that flame and want something new.
Post #54 indicates what we already have and are experienced with.

Appreciate the reply, our biggest danger where we live would be a coyote or other animal attacking our miniature poodle.
We do believe in being responsible for our security though, what we have would work, as far as home protection. The PT111 have been dead on reliable in 100s of rounds and the revolver second with maybe two FTF in hundreds of rounds. The pocket TCP is freaking scary that way it ejects shells.

 

[alarmguy]

I looked at a .38 and a 9MM. How would the recoil differ with the same grain bullets? Stopping power difference? No plus P+ used.

I have both and I would not worry about stopping power with either. The "right" 9 MM will be more comfortable to shoot and less recoil.
I like the mechanics of a 38 but just picture it as it is. A block of metal (sometimes a mix of another material) that goes bang and with a flash too *LOL*. More of that energy will transfer to your hand. However it's much less complicated and less to go wrong if it is just going to sit around your home for defensive purposes. In that case it might also be more intimating to a criminal.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Hammerless revolvers are known for heavy trigger pulls

What's cool about them is they can be fired from inside a coat pocket. Might not be good for the coat, but who cares if you had to do it.

 

[ripcord]

Everything else aside, I shoot better weak side with my Airweight snubs than with any semi-auto handgun. Even with the heavier trigger pull. There is just something about them that works for me shooting left handed.