Two Snubbies With No Hammers

[Greenbeforeblue]

What's the time difference in immediate action for a fail to fire on a revolver vs a semi auto? I'll give you a hint, with a revolver you just pull the trigger again.

I some cases, a revolver is the better option, even for civilians. Limp wrist a small 9mm auto and you may only get one shot before having to clear it. Then there's the secondary problem of the user not having sufficient hand strength to rack the slide. Both platforms can fail, no doubt about it. But a semi auto carries the additional chance for failure due to shooter technique, or more appropriately, lack there of and a revolver will function if the trigger is pulled, no matter how the user holds it. (Assuming no mechanical failure)

As someone who worked a career in law enforcement in a variety of assignments including uniform, planclothes and SWAT, I can say without a doubt in some cases a revolver is superior because it will do things an auto can't. For instance, fire from a pocket or other confined concealment more than once, the same goes for firing more than once with another man's hands holding on to it. The inherent safety of a double action snub allows it to be carried in the best position for rapid deployment without taking on additional risk of an AD/ND into one's own femoral artery.

In the last the ten years the internet has become rife with "firearms experts" and "internet gunfighters" who don't have true experience and don't know what they think they know. I will say this, they can be mildly entertaining.

 

[4wd]

That is a myth. They are still mechanical devices and capable of malfunction. The biggest problem with revolvers is when they go down, they go down hard. There is no tap rack drill to clear a simple malfunction.

I have a broken Charter Arm .38 in my safe that is a paper weight due to lock up and timing issues. Not worth fixing honestly. It dispelled the myth for me that revolvers were a sure thing.

OP - point of this is not to avoid revolvers - just Charter Arms

 

[ATex7239]

OP - point of this is not to avoid revolvers - just Charter Arms

Never suggest to avoid them. It’s still a viable option. Any mechanical devices is capable of failure. If that seems like a controversial statement then that has more to do the person feelings then reality. Are they more reliable than semi autos? Yes. Is it a guaranteed five? Nope. More reliable doesn’t equate to perfect.

 

[4wd]

Never suggest to avoid them. It’s still a viable option. Any mechanical devices is capable of failure. If that seems like a controversial statement then that has more to do the person feelings then reality. Are they more reliable than semi autos? Yes. Is it a guaranteed five? Nope. More reliable doesn’t equate to perfect.

Disagree - read the post from an actual retired LEO.

 

[4wd]

I looked at a .38 and a 9MM. How would the recoil differ with the same grain bullets? Stopping power difference? No plus P+ used.

How much are you willing to spend ?
It’s $600-$1200 to get into auto’s that don’t turn into a 1 shot
$500-$600 for decent revolvers

 

[ATex7239]

Disagree - read the post from an actual retired LEO.

If you mean post 21. Did you gloss over this part?

“Both platforms can fail, no doubt about it.”

 

[Cropduster172]

Revolvers can fail. Sorry that hurts the feels.

No hurt feelings. Agree that revolvers can fail. Just far less likely to do so than semiautomatics.

 

[ATex7239]

No hurt feelings. Agree that revolvers can fail. Just far less likely to do so than semiautomatics.

Agreed.

 

[Astro14]

There are good revolvers and good semi autos, both of which are reliable in use.

Some cheaper brands of both are likely to have more reliability problems. Yes, revolvers can, and sometimes do, fail or jam.

A good revolver isn’t better or worse than a good semi auto in terms of reliability.

A good revolver is better in manual of arms. Pull trigger. No bang? Pull again.

But a good semiautomatic is better in terms of capacity.

There’s a good case to be made for a small revolver in certain circumstances.

 

[shortyb]

There’s a good case to be made for a small revolver in certain circumstances.

When my department decided to invest in issued back-up weapons, there was a lot of "concern" from patrol officers that we should pick a semi-auto, preferably of the same caliber as the service pistol, so that ammo could be exchanged amongst those involved in the incident when they run dry. Those of us that had more experience in real shooting situations where we needed a back-up finally convinced the others that a small, 5 shot revolver would be a better choice.

A few of the reasons that made the most impact were that in a back-up type situation, you were under tremendous stress and revert back to gross motor skills. Slapping a trigger over and over when your adversary is on top of you lends well to revolver use, especially if there is no room for a slide to cycle properly, ie; more chance for it to go bang reliably. Second, not having to load, rack, or otherwise manipulate a semi with injury, particularly with your normal shooting hand, increased chances of going home at the end of your shift. Finally, the argument of same ammo was addressed with the statistic that the vast majority of incidents using a back-up weapon involved a single officer, and no one else was around to toss you extra rounds.

So we chose the S&W 642 Airweight and packed them with 129gr. Federal Hydra-Shok .38 Special +Ps. Once folks got a chance to shoot and carry them, we never heard "shoulda gone to semis for back-ups" again. I was fortunate that upon my retirement, the department gave me my issued 642 and I still carry it often, in addition to the semi-autos in my rotation.

 

[Cropduster172]

When my department decided to invest in issued back-up weapons, there was a lot of "concern" from patrol officers that we should pick a semi-auto, preferably of the same caliber as the service pistol, so that ammo could be exchanged amongst those involved in the incident when they run dry. Those of us that had more experience in real shooting situations where we needed a back-up finally convinced the others that a small, 5 shot revolver would be a better choice.

A few of the reasons that made the most impact were that in a back-up type situation, you were under tremendous stress and revert back to gross motor skills. Slapping a trigger over and over when your adversary is on top of you lends well to revolver use, especially if there is no room for a slide to cycle properly, ie; more chance for it to go bang reliably. Second, not having to load, rack, or otherwise manipulate a semi with injury, particularly with your normal shooting hand, increased chances of going home at the end of your shift. Finally, the argument of same ammo was addressed with the statistic that the vast majority of incidents using a back-up weapon involved a single officer, and no one else was around to toss you extra rounds.

So we chose the S&W 642 Airweight and packed them with 129gr. Federal Hydra-Shok .38 Special +Ps. Once folks got a chance to shoot and carry them, we never heard "shoulda gone to semis for back-ups" again. I was fortunate that upon my retirement, the department gave me my issued 642 and I still carry it often, in addition to the semi-autos in my rotation.

I left the department a few years before they switched over to semiautos. Our State issued sidearm was the Model 66 with 145 grn. Winchester Silvertip .357 JHP ammunition. My off duty and frequent backup was my trusty old Colt Detectives Special which I carried with 115 grn .38 JHP. I still carry the Colt(you and I have discussed ) but I usually go with my Taurus M85 UL with Hornady Critical Defense.38
I liked that Federal Guard Dog until they discontinued it.
Yeah...I'm biased toward revolvers.

 

[football]

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/content/38-special-vs-9mm-in-snub-nosed-revolvers/



9MM has more power, better ballistics, approaching 357 mag ballistics (in a snub nose revolver)

As far as reliability, revolvers are WAY (not even close) less reliable than a late model polymer 9MM pistol. Police agencies have rigorously tested this 25-35 years ago. The revolver is less reliable by a factor approaching 10-1.

When a revolver goes down, you need a gunsmith.

When a semi auto goes down, you need to rack the slide and fix the jam, then get back into action.

 

[Cropduster172]

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/content/38-special-vs-9mm-in-snub-nosed-revolvers/



9MM has more power, better ballistics, approaching 357 mag ballistics (in a snub nose revolver)

As far as reliability, revolvers are WAY (not even close) less reliable than a late model polymer 9MM pistol. Police agencies have rigorously tested this 25-35 years ago. The revolver is less reliable by a factor approaching 10-1.

When a revolver goes down, you need a gunsmith.

When a semi auto goes down, you need to rack the slide and fix the jam, then get back into action.

What a crock of .
Were you ever a cop that relied on a duty sidearm or just another guy that lives his life from YouTube clips?

 

[Cropduster172]

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/content/38-special-vs-9mm-in-snub-nosed-revolvers/



9MM has more power, better ballistics, approaching 357 mag ballistics (in a snub nose revolver)

As far as reliability, revolvers are WAY (not even close) less reliable than a late model polymer 9MM pistol. Police agencies have rigorously tested this 25-35 years ago. The revolver is less reliable by a factor approaching 10-1.

When a revolver goes down, you need a gunsmith.

When a semi auto goes down, you need to rack the slide and fix the jam, then get back into action.

You don't know what you're talking about...but all the best basing your self protection on videos from Gun Sam.

 

[ATex7239]

What a crock of .
Were you ever a cop that relied on a duty sidearm or just another guy that lives his life from YouTube clips?

You seem to believe that anyone without law-enforcement experience shouldn’t have an opinion on firearms. And that’s OK if that’s how you see it. However keep in mind you’re on an oil/technical forum so you shouldn’t have an opinion about anything outside of this firearms sub thread then because you don’t have professional technical experience as a tribologist, engineer, technician or mechanic, right? Don’t be upset if somebody slaps you down and tells you to sit down and shut up because you don’t have the credentials to have an opinion around here. What goes around, comes around.

 

[shortyb]

As far as reliability, revolvers are WAY (not even close) less reliable than a late model polymer 9MM pistol. Police agencies have rigorously tested this 25-35 years ago. The revolver is less reliable by a factor approaching 10-1.

When a revolver goes down, you need a gunsmith.

When a semi auto goes down, you need to rack the slide and fix the jam, then get back into action.

Well, it ain't that simple son. I'd argue that given both platforms, in good working condition, and maintained properly, have pretty much an equal chance of being reliable in a gunfight situation. Not 10-1 less reliable. I'd also argue that the reason for police agencies to switch from a revolver to a semi, or shun revolver use at all, was due to lack of reliability. Capacity and better ballistics in semi auto ammo were the main reasons most (if not all) made the switch. But I won't argue with someone on the internet, might be hard to tell which is the idiot .

 

[Cropduster172]

You seem to believe that anyone without law-enforcement experience shouldn’t have an opinion on firearms. And that’s OK if that’s how you see it. However keep in mind you’re on an oil/technical forum so you shouldn’t have an opinion about anything outside of this firearms sub thread then because you don’t have professional technical experience as a tribologist, engineer, technician or mechanic, right? Don’t be upset if somebody slaps you down and tells you to sit down and shut up because you don’t have the credentials to have an opinion around here. What goes around, comes around.

I don't believe that at all. But I'll always give more credibility to real life experience vs opinions drawn from YouTube videos.
Yeah, and I don't generally spew on topics that I don't have experience with. You're correct about the nature of the forum but perhaps you're just a wee bit too sensitive,eh?

 

[ATex7239]

I don't believe that at all. But I'll always give more credibility to real life experience vs opinions drawn from YouTube videos.
Yeah, and I don't generally spew on topics that I don't have experience with. You're correct about the nature of the forum but perhaps you're just a wee bit too sensitive,eh?

Educating is better than insulting. Presenting information and substantiating it with evidence and your real world experience is a mature way communicate an argument effectively. Or maybe asking probing questions to suss out correct answers and help people figure it out on their own.

I come from a technical background so I’m accustom to people presenting information based on data and evidence. Not simply an appeal to authority. So yeah one could say that I’m a tad sensitive to immature presenting of information, ad hominem attack, and elitism.

 

[Cropduster172]

Educating is better than insulting. Presenting information and substantiating it with evidence and your real world experience is a mature way communicate an argument effectively. Or maybe asking probing questions to suss out correct answers and help people figure it out on their own.

I come from a technical background so I’m accustom to people presenting information based on data and evidence. Not simply an appeal to authority. So yeah one could say that I’m a tad sensitive to immature presenting of information, ad hominem attack, and elitism.

Are you an engineer?

 

[Astro14]

Gents, let’s dial back the ad hominem arguments, please.