Cautionary tale - Syns are not full proof against the Sienna (etal) engine - I did a ton of scouring the web back in the early days when this story broke (2001 or so) since I had just picked up a 98 Sienna. An Amsoil dealer using their 2000 product sludged his engine - Amsoil replaced it. I know I read at least one M1 user that sludged. The Amsoil guy was going for a 1 yr OCI - can't remember at what pt he sludged. Can't remember when the M1'rs sludged either.
Tundra owners - Which oil do you use and why?
- Thread starter foxer
- Start date
- Status
Just tried to find that old Amsoil sludge story on the web (it's been many years) - can't find it (know I read it though - something like that burns into your brain). But I just now found several M1 Sienna sludge stories. The majority of stories I've read over the years - the engine sludged in under 50k - many of them around 25k and one was at 14k - which leads me to believe some of them had just an added extra little defect or something. Though I agree with the close scrutiny maint. warning.
OK, end of threadjack. Sorry!
OK, end of threadjack. Sorry!
if you have a known motor that sludges the last thing you want to do is leave the oil in there for a year. thats just dumb. even if you used syn i would do 5-6k mile intervals as long as it doesnt go over 4-6 months in the motor.. some common sense will take you a long way in this world and save you $$ in the process
I'm just dumb.
I've been doing 8 mo (8 to 9k) OCIs for years and so far so good. I'm pushing this OCI out a bit further and doing a UOA (oil looks fine right now with 6.5k on it - smells a bit skankie but just dark amber in color). If my UOA at 10k miles shows any issues then I'll reconsider my madness.
Here's the thing - there were several million of these engines produced (I think it was close to 4 million) - a small % indeed sludged up. Most of the sludge stories I know about were at 20k to 50k miles. You know there's tons of 1998-2001 Sienna owners out there to this day running dino that make it to Jiffy Lube every 7 mos and theirs hasn't sludged.
The data really seems to indicate a % of these engines just had that extra something wrong with them. Yes, mine seems to run blazing hot (subjective), and my oil smells skankie very early in an OCI. ??? Perhaps this upcoming 10k UOA will shed some light.
Here's the thing - there were several million of these engines produced (I think it was close to 4 million) - a small % indeed sludged up. Most of the sludge stories I know about were at 20k to 50k miles. You know there's tons of 1998-2001 Sienna owners out there to this day running dino that make it to Jiffy Lube every 7 mos and theirs hasn't sludged.
The data really seems to indicate a % of these engines just had that extra something wrong with them. Yes, mine seems to run blazing hot (subjective), and my oil smells skankie very early in an OCI. ??? Perhaps this upcoming 10k UOA will shed some light.
blazing hot? you not getting good circulation in there? perhaps from sludge? with sludge you would have to take the heads and or oil pan off to see.. most do not show up on a UOA.. atleast thats what i was told and read
BTW, adding to the "someone wrong with a small %" theory - chk out the stories - they're very easy to find - google "sienna sludge". There seems to be countless people that claim they were doing 3k OCIs with dino that sludged (presented their Jiffy Lube receipts to Toyota to prove it). Early today I was chking the M1 stories - they were claiming "regular oil changes at the dealer", etc and they still sludged. It sludged an Amoils 2000 fill. THEREFORE - it really looks like if you had the doomed engine, you were doomed regardless of oil or OCI.
(I have seen a few cases of Siennas sludging with high miles - so it is still worrisome for me).
(I have seen a few cases of Siennas sludging with high miles - so it is still worrisome for me).
A couple of months ago I had valve cover gaskets put on (which I would've been there to chk myself) - Toyota mechanic said engine was "very clean".
"Hot" is subjective. If I got under other peoples modern car hoods, I'd probably say the same.
"Hot" is subjective. If I got under other peoples modern car hoods, I'd probably say the same.
That's interesting Mike - on how to detect sludge. What about under the valve covers? I do have a fairly high oil consumption, which is an indicator of sludge. But the dipstick is perfectly clean, under the valve cover is clean, my recent UOA at 4.3k was clean (though this may not be withstanding as you said).
??
??
Hello guys, I will answer your questions as best as I can. Keep in mind though the following:
1.I am not a Toyota engineer or an expert, I am just a guy with 16+ years experience with one car: Toyota.
2. I only know what my experience has taught ME and what I have personally seen. I have "seen" and been around an estimated 40,000 different Toyota's that have been repaired or serviced. I have personally either serviced or handled the maintenance of hundreds of 1997-2001 Toyota's that fell into the catagory of the "sludge" campaign. There is an incredible amount of information about this.
Sooooo, here is my experience. GET READY!!!!!
I have never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever seen a Toyota engine sludge with documented 5,000 mile OCI's with good either dino or sythetic. EVER. Period. What you say? I am sorry to tell you this, but it is true. In every single sludge case, which I am required to personally inspect, the owner falls into these catagories:
1. New owner of a used car. Bought the car already sludged up.
2. The owner flat out admits OCI's way past due at one or more times.
3. The owner follows Toyota's "Normal" maintenance schedual that started in 1997 that said to do 7500 OCI's. Not the customers fault, stupid on Toyota's. The customer would in most cases see 7500 as a starting point and really do OCI's at 8500+. [censored], I saw a 30,000 mile Sienna 3.0 V6 with the original oil filter on it. ENGINE TOAST.
4. Boyfriend, husband, cousin, neighbor, priest changes the oil every 5,000 miles but has no reciepts or proof. What do you know???
It's amazing though. We must have a special oil here, because at 5,000 mile OCI's, my customers engines will not sludge. Hmmm. And it's 5w30 Mobil Driveclean, dino oil.
If you have a clean Toyota engine, change the oil at 5,000 miles, and all will be well. Go to 7,500+ on dino? Well, you might get sludge. FYI, Toyota did nothing to update the engine for us to repair. We replaced the sludge damaged parts, and reminded them of the importance of 5,000 mile OCI's. Nothing else.
I hope this answers your questions, let the flaming begin.
PS: The 3.4 is good. The early ones (1996-1998) did have some headgasket failures though. They blew and leaked externally within the first couple of years.
1.I am not a Toyota engineer or an expert, I am just a guy with 16+ years experience with one car: Toyota.
2. I only know what my experience has taught ME and what I have personally seen. I have "seen" and been around an estimated 40,000 different Toyota's that have been repaired or serviced. I have personally either serviced or handled the maintenance of hundreds of 1997-2001 Toyota's that fell into the catagory of the "sludge" campaign. There is an incredible amount of information about this.
Sooooo, here is my experience. GET READY!!!!!
I have never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever seen a Toyota engine sludge with documented 5,000 mile OCI's with good either dino or sythetic. EVER. Period. What you say? I am sorry to tell you this, but it is true. In every single sludge case, which I am required to personally inspect, the owner falls into these catagories:
1. New owner of a used car. Bought the car already sludged up.
2. The owner flat out admits OCI's way past due at one or more times.
3. The owner follows Toyota's "Normal" maintenance schedual that started in 1997 that said to do 7500 OCI's. Not the customers fault, stupid on Toyota's. The customer would in most cases see 7500 as a starting point and really do OCI's at 8500+. [censored], I saw a 30,000 mile Sienna 3.0 V6 with the original oil filter on it. ENGINE TOAST.
4. Boyfriend, husband, cousin, neighbor, priest changes the oil every 5,000 miles but has no reciepts or proof. What do you know???
It's amazing though. We must have a special oil here, because at 5,000 mile OCI's, my customers engines will not sludge. Hmmm. And it's 5w30 Mobil Driveclean, dino oil.
If you have a clean Toyota engine, change the oil at 5,000 miles, and all will be well. Go to 7,500+ on dino? Well, you might get sludge. FYI, Toyota did nothing to update the engine for us to repair. We replaced the sludge damaged parts, and reminded them of the importance of 5,000 mile OCI's. Nothing else.
I hope this answers your questions, let the flaming begin.
PS: The 3.4 is good. The early ones (1996-1998) did have some headgasket failures though. They blew and leaked externally within the first couple of years.
Derek,
Thanks for taking the time to write that! Lot's of good data. Hindsite tells me I wish I had the '95 Camry engine in my Sienna - that engine could probably handle 30k on the same filter.
Thanks for taking the time to write that! Lot's of good data. Hindsite tells me I wish I had the '95 Camry engine in my Sienna - that engine could probably handle 30k on the same filter.
No problem Eric. I really try to share my experiences about this sludge issue because there is some truth to it, and some serious mis-information out there. Toyota made a mistake with the 7500 mile OCI recommendation, and they fought a little with customers. Then they stepped up and spent crazy money repairing engines, and they continue to do so with almost no questions asked. What other nameplate does that? It's amazing when I see a car that has a rod hanging through the block, that was clearly abused, and we throw a new engine in it at ZERO cost. Oh ya, there is no stated mileage limit. I am doing a 180,000 mile Sienna right now!
I know it appears as if I am biased, but that's only because I am. Google searches that contain stories about 3K OCI sludgers are bogus. The [censored] I see come in my shop is amazing. People really do think I fell off the truck yesterday, I swear.
***AGAIN, this is just my experience***
I know it appears as if I am biased, but that's only because I am. Google searches that contain stories about 3K OCI sludgers are bogus. The [censored] I see come in my shop is amazing. People really do think I fell off the truck yesterday, I swear.
***AGAIN, this is just my experience***
I appreciate your real world knowledge and input, derek244. I thought I'd do a little thread highjacking too, while we're at it. I have a 2000 Tundra V-8 that I'm thinking about switching from OEM NGK V-Power plugs to NGK BKR6EP-8 Laser Platinum plugs. Have you experienced any problems with this switch? Thanks.
Well, as I can recall the Tundra uses a standard plug, right? I understand wanting to switch to platinum for less frequent plug changes. I can honestly say I have not experienced an issue related to plugs on a Tundra. I would say give it a try! Back in the 90's we had running issues all the time from people using Bosch platinum plugs. I never really understood what the deal was there, but after seeing several cases where the engine ran poorly with the Bosch plug, but returned to normal when a standard OEM plug was installed, I was convinced. So strange! That Tundra engine though? I have seen OEM original plugs in these things at 100K. Hardly any electodes left, but still firing just fine and no check engine light. Amazing engine!
yeah my tacoma had 75k miles on her basic denso plugs before i changed them. hardly any electrodes left.. after i changed them i only saw minimal mpg increase and the motor reved a little better thats it. amazing plugs by denso and ngk.. i personally like denso, they are cheaper and just as good if not better than ngk.
I think I will give the NGK Platinums a try. Their website lists them as OEM now for the 4.7L, I think. Are they in fact using Platinum plugs as OEM in the later models?
the deal with platinums is that if your motor or ingnition system was not originally designed and came from the factory with platinums then you shout NOT run them. i had a 2001 grand cherokee that called for regular champion plugs so i went with the platinums. they didnt last a year before the plugs went bad. i put them in again and another year later it happened again. i talked to a jeep guy and told me to put the regulars back in bc it was not designed to run the platinums.. it ran better with the basic plugs. better gas mileage too and they lasted well over 30k miles
i love the ad's for the new tundra's i seriously have a deep urge to buy a tundra because of them
Well i dont know about the 4.7L but the 3.4L requires double ground sparkplugs with denso or ngk being the best. I installed denso iridiums and so far so good.
Welcome to the club.Don't go on Tundrasolutions,it's getting rave reviews.
After checking them out I would like to drive one.
I have an '02 w/93k with no trouble.I'd take on in a heart beat.I don't want to dump my truck but an AC is tight on road trips.
if you own a toyota period its denso or ngk.. the tacomas came with one side ngk and the other denso. why i dunno. enough of the thread hijack lol
- Status
Similar threads
- Question