true synthetic oil

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Originally Posted By: 350zriot
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
My experience so far with M1 TDT 5w40 in my truck has been high oil consumption, about a quart every 1500 miles. This is much higher consumption than I had with VPB Classic.

My experience with M1 5w30 HM in my Camaro was very low oil consumption, only 1/2-quart in 5500 miles. This is much lower consumption than I had with standard M1 5w30.

Since you live in SoCal, you don't need the low-temperature flow characteristics of a 0 or 5w oil.

The HTHS of HM 10w40 is 4.06, while for TDT 5w40, it is 3.8. This means higher oil film thickness in your bearings.

The Flash point of TDT is 215C, and for HM 10w40, it is 240C.

Because of the lower viscosity spread, HM 10w40 would be slightly more shear resistant than TDT. And since the Nissan V6 engine is notorious for shearing oils, you need all the protection you can get.

Check out this sad story of a Nissan V6:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/my-rod-bearings-after-a-hpde.131922/

Could you tell me what all those letters stand for? like..TDT, HD and such
i'm surprised that mobil 1 5w40 lost more oil than 5w 30.
Shouldn't thicker oil lose less over time?

I was searching around autozone website, annd i noticed that they sell mobil 1 clean 5000 10w40 for half the price of other engine oil. why...?lool


HM = High Mileage
TDT = Turbo Diesel Truck

Mobil Clean 5000 is not a synthetic oil. Only Mobil's fully synthetic oils bear the Mobil 1 name. It may have been on clearance because it is a nearly useless weight of oil, and Mobil Clean 5000 has been replaced my Mobil Super.
 
Threads like this usually end up similarly. Everyone knows what the op is asking, but the answer is often that it doesn't matter, or very technical and useless regarding the intent of the question. Some of the responses are condescending, and the end result is the guy who wanted something simple is only confused. I have seen this question asked repeatedly since I have been reading here, almost as often as 5W 2O vs. 5W 3O. I think the best answer would be Tom in NJ's, post along with some recs for oils that are likely above group III. If someone could compile the best answers to this question and the 2O vs. 3O questions, and make them a sticky, we wouldn't have to rehash this all the time.
 
Originally Posted By: ledslinger
along with some recs for oils that are likely above group III.

You recognized that many people find this kind of recommendation to be pointless and often counterproductive. Have the reasons for that not been made clear?
 
One thing at a time, please. I don't deal well with multiple simultaneous topics in a discussion.

Is it or is it not clear WHY asking for an oil "above group III" is pointless?
 
The overall formulation is what you need to be looking at. The base oil really isn't the overriding factor. Any motor oil will have a mixture of base oils anyway.
 
Originally Posted By: Greggy_D
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Only Mobil's fully synthetic oils bear the Mobil 1 name.


Not anymore:

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English-LCW/carengineoils_products_mobil-super-synthetic.aspx

Quote:
A full-synthetic engine oil designed to help extend engine life, Mobil Super Synthetic provides outstanding engine protection in a wide variety of weather, temperatures, and driving conditions for vehicles of all ages.




I didn't say Mobil 1 was their only synthetic.
 
Originally Posted By: ledslinger
No

Okay. Let me try to rephrase some of what Tom NJ said. There are three crucial points:


- The term "group III" is like the term "green." It doesn't represent a discrete entity. It's just a part of a spectrum. There's no clean line between it and its neighbors. The "limits" we put around each category are purely arbitrary. We set them for our own convenience, not because they actually represent reality. If you take one base stock that's on the "upper" edge of the group III range and another base stock that's on the "lower" edge of the group IV range, they are practically the same thing.

- Each base stock has advantages and disadvantages. Depending on the application, it's entirely possible -- not necessarily likely, but POSSIBLE -- for a group II-based oil to be better than a group III-based oil, or for a group III-based oil to be better than a group IV/V-based oil. Having a "higher" base stock is no guarantee that the oil actually will perform better; if it's formulated poorly for the application in question, it might be worse than a well-formulated oil with "lower" base stocks.

- Almost no one -- short-trippers and racers included -- has needs that could only be fulfilled by the "top-of-the-line" base stocks. What matters is that the overall performance of the oil -- not just the base stocks, but the whole oil, additives included -- is appropriate to the application. For my car, I would rather have a group III oil that meets ACEA A3 specs than a group IV/V oil that meets ACEA A5 specs. For my friend's Honda Civic VX, he might be better off using group III-based Pennzoil Ultra 5w-30 over group V-based Red Line 5w-30.


If an oil meets the right specs and carries the right approvals, that tells you a lot. If an oil has XYZ base stocks in it, that tells you almost nothing.
 
No one's saying group IV/V oils "wouldn't perform well in the OP's engine." We're saying they won't necessarily perform better than all group III oils.
 
It's kind of like car insurance, everyone needs it, some get by on minimum coverage or 'overall' value, while others like all of the coverage they can get. Motor oil is sorta like that. It's all your choice, yet no one wants to drive uninsured.
grin2.gif
 
One more try is this thread leading to rewriting the question:

Which oils have the true OEM, API, ACEA, Ilsax specifcations ?

or

Which oils have true synthetic base oil ?

Which question is more important or rather more appropriate ?

If the "true synthetics" are unable to meet the "true OEM, API, ACEA, Ilsax specifcations required" then the engine oil will not perform in the given application.

Like it was said before the speculation should have ended after Tom NJ's post.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Pablo
It's not even worth worrying about "true synthetic oil" anymore. It really isn't.

^^ This.


X2
 
We all want insurances. that's why i added a high capacity oil pan lol. now i put 6 qts instead of 5. i may add oil cooler which i'll end up with around 6.5 qts every oil change. I'm trying to get as much insurance as possible because i autox and drift.
 
Originally Posted By: A_Harman


The HTHS of HM 10w40 is 4.06, while for TDT 5w40, it is 3.8. This means higher oil film thickness in your bearings.

The Flash point of TDT is 215C, and for HM 10w40, it is 240C.

Because of the lower viscosity spread, HM 10w40 would be slightly more shear resistant than TDT.


where did you find information on HTHS (thickness of the oil?) and Flash point (what is this?)
 
It is on the product data sheet that I downloaded from their website. The HM data sheet is dated November, 2010. The TDT data sheet is dated September 2010.

Flash point is the temperature at which the vapors from the heated oil will combust. Flash point is used as an indication of how well the oil resists consumption, if no NOACK number is available. Higher is thought to be better.
 
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
It is on the product data sheet that I downloaded from their website. The HM data sheet is dated November, 2010. The TDT data sheet is dated September 2010.

Flash point is the temperature at which the vapors from the heated oil will combust. Flash point is used as an indication of how well the oil resists consumption, if no NOACK number is available. Higher is thought to be better.

Is that mean Castrol 0w30 is the best since it has higher flash point than mobil 1 5w50, 10w40, and castrol 5w50?
http://datasheets.bp.com/ussds/amersdsf.nsf/0/1326CAB0B0714EE18625774D004B0D0E/$file/063385Castrol%20Syntec%200W-30.pdf
but castrol 0w30 has lower kinematics at 100 degrees.

i was searching around and read that mobile 10 (5?)40w high mileage has additives for high mileaged cars. Doesn't sound like its good for my 350z with low milege.

what do you think about mobile 1 5w50 for VQ engine street and drift use? my oil pressure would drop about 15 psi after little bit of drifting at events.
 
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