TRADE your gas car for EV ?

[supton]

That is concern with everything.
I mean, builder of my house “forgot “ insulation in one of the walls and small attic above half bathroom.

Sure. But many other things I can afford to replace or otherwise walk away from. Or I can fix on my own, or it's (hopefully) not a big thing to hire out. "Big" investments, not so much. Many would say "it's under warranty, so it'll never break, so I can afford to have it, and I'll pay extra for the better thing". Me, I worry I won't get that ROI.

100 year warranty applies to first owner never next. So the plan works since most people sell or die before making a claim.

I'd like to believe that, yet poor installation might bite me if I still live there--or it might bite me if I buy it, thinking "oh it's got one of those 100 year roofs, I'll never have a problem".

 

[Reggaemon]

Yes, if I live long enough.

 

[edyvw]

They, do, yes, but considerably less. Today was clear, but it's coming into winter, so output is lower. There is 478MW of installed capacity here:
View attachment 130121
Peak output of 331MW; 69% of nameplate.

This was two days ago when it was overcast:
View attachment 130122

Peak output of 123MW of 478MW; 25.7% of nameplate.

Productivity started at ~9AM and was gone by 5PM, cloudy or not.

Of course it is lower. No one argues that. But based on my consumption currently, I can cover it even during cloudy days. Though, we have around 315 sunny days a year.

 

[OVERKILL]

Of course it is lower. No one argues that. But based on my consumption currently, I can cover it even during cloudy days. Though, we have around 315 sunny days a year.

The point was that it was CONSIDERABLY lower. Like 1/4 of the output lower, that's very significant in terms of planning for resource adequacy for example. May not be something Joe Home Owner who just wants to plop panels on his property and get paid thinks about, but it's something your utility who is required to provide reliable electricity does.

And yes, location plays a huge role.

I know you are new to having panels. I'm quite interested to see what your first 365 days of output plotted will end up looking like. This is how resource planning views solar here in Ontario:

And, as you know, I'm not against solar, but I think this sort of thing is beneficial for people curious about energy to know.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Sure. But many other things I can afford to replace or otherwise walk away from. Or I can fix on my own, or it's (hopefully) not a big thing to hire out. "Big" investments, not so much. Many would say "it's under warranty, so it'll never break, so I can afford to have it, and I'll pay extra for the better thing". Me, I worry I won't get that ROI.

How many solar panel problems have yotu heard about? I don't know of any, and there is a lotta solar around here.
How many solar owners have you spoken with that are sorry they did their solar project? Everyone I know of loves their solar.

The point was that it was CONSIDERABLY lower. Like 1/4 of the output lower, that's very significant in terms of planning for resource adequacy for example. May not be something Joe Home Owner who just wants to plop panels on his property and get paid thinks about, but it's something your utility who is required to provide reliable electricity does.

And yes, location plays a huge role.

I know you are new to having panels. I'm quite interested to see what your first 365 days of output plotted will end up looking like. This is how resource planning views solar here in Ontario:


And, as you know, I'm not against solar, but I think this sort of thing is beneficial for people curious about energy to know.

Fair enough; number matter. The solar project calculation needs to include overall climate, not just sunny days to make sense. As you point out, geographic region and local energy costs are key. In my case, the decision was made as part of a long term plan to minimize recurring costs. This has been a good component. Each case is different.

 

[OVERKILL]

How many solar panel problems have yotu heard about? I don't know of any, and there is a lotta solar around here.
How many solar owners have you spoken with that are sorry they did their solar project? Everyone I know of loves their solar.

Fair enough; number matter. The solar project calculation needs to include overall climate, not just sunny days to make sense. As you point out, geographic region and local energy costs are key. In my case, the decision was made as part of a long term plan to minimize recurring costs. This has been a good component. Each case is different.

You didn't ask me, but I will mention that our local 10MW farm had to have 1/3rd of its panels replaced because their output fell off rapidly. (the other 2/3rds were a different brand that didn't have this issue).

 

[JeffKeryk]

You didn't ask me, but I will mention that our local 10MW farm had to have 1/3rd of its panels replaced because their output fell off rapidly. (the other 2/3rds were a different brand that didn't have this issue).

Good to know. What brand? People ask me about my solar project; I recommend buying the highest quality vs the lowest cost.
As you know, I used the LONGI SOLAR:LR6-60PB-300M, which you approved of. Nearly 5 years later, so far, so good.
Was the replacement covered under warranty? Hope so!

 

[OVERKILL]

Good to know. What brand? People ask me about my solar project; I recommend buying the highest quality vs the lowest cost.
As you know, I used the LONGI SOLAR:LR6-60PB-300M, which you approved of. Nearly 5 years later, so far, so good.
Was the replacement covered under warranty? Hope so!

The bad panels were provided by OptiSolar out of California, the rest of the panels were provided by Masdar PV in Germany.

The bad panels were replaced with panels from Canadian Solar Industries.

My understanding is that OptiSolar went bankrupt:
https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/inside-optisolars-grand-ambitions-6029

And our utility had to buy the new panels.

 

[ecotourist]

There have been a lot of "no" answers.

I wonder if the answers would have been different if drivers were paying typical first world prices for fuel.

In British Columbia regular gasoline costs something like $5.25 US per US gallon (it varies a lot). That seems expensive but is still relatively cheap by first world standards. Here are some example prices as of May 2022.

From https://capitalcounselor.com/gas-pr... at $8.17,by a whopping 335% in the last year.

Hong Kong	$11.20
Norway	$10.70
Denmark	$10.02
Finland	$9.64
The UK	$8.17
France	$8.06
Spain	$8.13

 

[OVERKILL]

To answer the OP:

Yes, I considered it, and even did it, buying an Audi e-tron at one point, but my wife hated it (whole saga is on here) and so it was traded back in on a Grand Cherokee.

Since then, I considered the Tesla Model Y, but couldn't get over the interior and materials, and the BMW i4 M50. I'd have probably bought the demo if it was for sale, I was extremely impressed with the car.

I'm now in a holding pattern to see what BMW does going forward. They are my favourite at the moment and likely where I'll put my money when the time comes.

 

[demarpaint]

Sure. But you want solar to be perfect, while that is an issue with every single contractor that does other things. That doesn’t stop you having plumbing or garage door.

You were the person mentioning sue, I told you it isn't always that simple. Regarding perfect, we all know nothing is perfect, somethings like our grid are far from perfect, very far. It's going to take a lot more than wind and solar panels to make it perfect with the current push for the EV.

 

[edyvw]

The point was that it was CONSIDERABLY lower. Like 1/4 of the output lower, that's very significant in terms of planning for resource adequacy for example. May not be something Joe Home Owner who just wants to plop panels on his property and get paid thinks about, but it's something your utility who is required to provide reliable electricity does.

And yes, location plays a huge role.

I know you are new to having panels. I'm quite interested to see what your first 365 days of output plotted will end up looking like. This is how resource planning views solar here in Ontario:
View attachment 130133

And, as you know, I'm not against solar, but I think this sort of thing is beneficial for people curious about energy to know.

Sure, utilities will have different planning. There is no doubt generation is going down anywhere in the NA during winter.
But, I am talking from homeowners perspective.
Here is production this year. Last month I used 285KWh.

 

[edyvw]

You were the person mentioning sue, I told you it isn't always that simple. Regarding perfect, we all know nothing is perfect, somethings like our grid are far from perfect, very far. It's going to take a lot more than wind and solar panels to make it perfect with the current push for the EV.

No one argues that wind or solar can make it up for usage if everyone jumps on EV.
My point about suing was that it happened. I am not arguing that suing is an option that is just there.
Homeowners who go solar should also do research, same like they should do research when doing deck, driveway, water heater etc.
For me solar makes perfect sense. I live at high altitude, I don’t have parasitic loses in summer due to heat, utilities pay me excessive production. There is nothing not to like.
Am I going to have some issues with it? Probably, like literally with everything else in the house.

 

[demarpaint]

No one argues that wind or solar can make it up for usage if everyone jumps on EV.
My point about suing was that it happened. I am not arguing that suing is an option that is just there.
Homeowners who go solar should also do research, same like they should do research when doing deck, driveway, water heater etc.
For me solar makes perfect sense. I live at high altitude, I don’t have parasitic loses in summer due to heat, utilities pay me excessive production. There is nothing not to like.
Am I going to have some issues with it? Probably, like literally with everything else in the house.

My friend did his homework, and years went by before he had the squirrel issue. Companies come and go, especially solar companies, and many of the new tech companies. You check them out, they're good, a few years later they're gone. These things happen, along with problems with homes and cars. You made a point, I made a point. That's what these threads are about. To some people solar and EVs make perfect sense, to others they make no sense at all. In my friends case it was a bad investment, that happens too.

 

[OVERKILL]

Sure, utilities will have different planning. There is no doubt generation is going down anywhere in the NA during winter.
But, I am talking from homeowners perspective.
Here is production this year. Last month I used 285KWh.
View attachment 130138

Yes, though you'll notice I did mention that perspective, that Joe Average home owner isn't likely going to consider what the output profile does for system adequacy planning.

 

[edyvw]

My friend did his homework, and years went by before he had the squirrel issue. Companies come and go, especially solar companies, and many of the new tech companies. You check them out, they're good, a few years later they're gone. These things happen, along with problems with homes and cars. You made a point, I made a point. That's what these threads are about. To some people solar and EVs make perfect sense, to others they make no sense at all. In my friends case it was a bad investment, that happens too.

Of course. I have friends here that are still active military. They move. It is harder to sell the house when you have loan for it. One asked me does it pay off, but they are moving in 2yrs. I told her: absolutely not! Especially now when housing market cooled off a bit.

 

[edyvw]

Yes, though you'll notice I did mention that perspective, that Joe Average home owner isn't likely going to consider what the output profile does for system adequacy planning.

Of course. And that is not Joe’s problem. Joe has his job to worry about. Utilities have their.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Just my opinion, but I think @OVERKILL should get a Plaid. Go to the 13 minute mark... Waaaay too dangerous a car for me, of course.

 

[OVERKILL]

Of course. And that is not Joe’s problem. Joe has his job to worry about. Utilities have their.

No, but when we are discussing the grid and the future, then it becomes quite relevant, despite most folks here, yourself included being "Joe Average Homeowner". The reality is, while it is the grid operator's duty to properly plan, politics are a huge driving force and this meddling can have fantastic and far-reaching consequences. California isn't having to implement rolling blackouts in the summer as a result of proper resource planning Germany has recently had to un-mothball a pile of coal plants, which is obvious as to why when you look at this:

The reality as to the limitations of relying on VRE has hit like a punch from Tyson.

 

[Big_kahuna]

im loosing interest in this tread,