Toyota's new electric oil pump.

[ZeeOSix]

All fair points. I don’t disagree with the science. I believe it. I have used a higher viscosity in several vehicles when racing, towing and off roading because it was absolutely required.

The hard part to define with this particular topic is at what point is it actually impactful with “normal” or “extended” use. And this gray area is the hard part. And manufacturers won’t clearly define that break-over point for us. So we are all left to decide for ourselves.

Yes, we are with little hints from the nebulous statements in the OMs like Toyota has saying use a higher viscosity for more extreme use conditions.

The easiest way to take care of the unknown protection break point as you call it, is to establish the protection headroom right off the bat. Only thing that might be a negative from doing that is loosing a tiny bit of fuel mileage.

Example: Go up a grade if xW-16 or xW-20 are speced for "normal" street driving. If xW-30 is already speced, go to xW-40 or xW-50 for really heavy track use. Ford specs anything from 5W-20 to 5W-50 in the high HP Coyote V8 based on use conditions. Most high performance car makers run a thicker oil, and spec thicker for track use for a reason. Thinner oils don't protect as well in those situations. And some like Ford have went back up a grade (5W-30 in the Coyote now) for normal street driving. They wouldn't burn their CAFE cash if there wasn't a good reason to do so.

 

[PimTac]

Other than the fuel economy hit there would be no technical reason not to do so.

In the long run who knows?

 

[kschachn]

In the long run who knows?

You’re kidding, right? I know your basic physics knowledge is better than that.

 

[PimTac]

You’re kidding, right? I know your basic physics knowledge is better than that.

For engines that have been designed to run on 0w-16, what will be the long term effect on the rings, the complicated VVT and cylinder deactivation systems running a 40 grade? I am talking about 60 or 80 thousand miles down the road.

 

[Fahrvergnügen]

On the RX my dad uses for Uber, as soon as 60K passes, I’m using 5W-30.

In my 2022 Lexus RX350 as soon as I got it home at 20 miles, I switched it to Mobil 1 ESP 0w30 C3 rated oil and currently at 12,000 miles. Don’t wait just do it. Mine is a lease.

 

[kschachn]

For engines that have been designed to run on 0w-16, what will be the long term effect on the rings, the complicated VVT and cylinder deactivation systems running a 40 grade? I am talking about 60 or 80 thousand miles down the road.

How big do you think oil molecules are? Engines may be designed to tolerate lower viscosity oils but that's as far as it goes. If a higher viscosity oil will damage something then it's going to be a problem whenever the engine is not at optimal oil temperature - which can be a majority of the time in certain climates and certain operating environments.

Which doesn't preclude a manufacturer from reading electronic signatures from VVT devices to tattle on owners using a different grade.

 

[ATex7239]

In my 2022 Lexus RX350 as soon as I got it home at 20 miles, I switched it to Mobil 1 ESP 0w30 C3 rated oil and currently at 12,000 miles. Don’t wait just do it. Mine is a lease.

Better man than I. My car is a lease and it only gets bulk synblend and jobber filters from quick lubes. Couldn’t care less how long it lasts after I’m done with it.

 

[930.engineering]

If a higher viscosity oil will damage something then it's going to be a problem whenever the engine is not at optimal oil temperature - which can be a majority of the time in certain climates and certain operating environments.

That's the point. It doesn't make much sense to puzzle one's head over
negligible differences in viscosity like 8 vs 14 cSt when oils are like 200,
300 or 500 cSt and even much more just barely below freezing point.
Today's engines are designed/built to cope with winters and cold starts.
.

 

[edyvw]

When I recollect how everyone was piling on BMW for having electric water pump. Toyota electric oil pump? Best thing after sliced bread and fans don’t have a clue about reliability.

But, as far as I know pump is electronically controlled.

 

[ARB1977]

I ran an auto meter electric oil pressure gauge on my 2002 Tacoma 3.4L. At idle it was under 10 psi. Granted how accurate was it I don’t know.

 

[Fahrvergnügen]

Better man than I. My car is a lease and it only gets bulk synblend and jobber filters from quick lubes. Couldn’t care less how long it lasts after I’m done with it.

That’s not right to do! Someone else has to drive that after you and they will probably keep it. That is why I never buy used vehicles.

 

[ATex7239]

That’s not right to do! Someone else has to drive that after you and they will probably keep it. That is why I never buy used vehicles.

Moral relativism

 

[OVERKILL]

How big do you think oil molecules are? Engines may be designed to tolerate lower viscosity oils but that's as far as it goes. If a higher viscosity oil will damage something then it's going to be a problem whenever the engine is not at optimal oil temperature - which can be a majority of the time in certain climates and certain operating environments.

Which doesn't preclude a manufacturer from reading electronic signatures from VVT devices to tattle on owners using a different grade.

That's the point. It doesn't make much sense to puzzle one's head over
negligible differences in viscosity like 8 vs 14 cSt when oils are like 200,
300 or 500 cSt and even much more just barely below freezing point.
Today's engines are designed/built to cope with winters and cold starts.
.

Yup, I feel like I've pointed this out 100 times now. Fire a car up on 0w-16 in Winnipeg when it is -40C and that oil is MUCH thicker than 20w-50 in Florida. Engines simply CANNOT be that sensitive to viscosity.

 

[Zee09]

Yup, I feel like I've pointed this out 100 times now. Fire a car up on 0w-16 in Winnipeg when it is -40C and that oil is MUCH thicker than 20w-50 in Florida. Engines simply CANNOT be that sensitive to viscosity.

What happens if the car is in Florida and you remote start it in Canada?

 

[KrisZ]

When I recollect how everyone was piling on BMW for having electric water pump. Toyota electric oil pump? Best thing after sliced bread and fans don’t have a clue about reliability.

But, as far as I know pump is electronically controlled.

Yes, it seems some people like to think in very simplistic terms and in their mind it's all black or white.
The oil pump is not even electric, but many automatically assumed things on the thread title alone and proclaimed it's all good since Toyota did it.

 

[Ausfahrt]

In my 2022 Lexus RX350 as soon as I got it home at 20 miles, I switched it to Mobil 1 ESP 0w30 C3 rated oil and currently at 12,000 miles. Don’t wait just do it. Mine is a lease.

Leased car? Smart move.

 

[Ausfahrt]

What a crazy thread. There are too many variables involved to just say high PSI is better than low PSI. Being fixated on PSI ignores orifice and passage sizes and a host of other design parameters.

Flow increases when the passages are wider with reduced pressure and pressure increases with reduced flow when they are smaller.

 

[ATex7239]

What a crazy thread. There are too many variables involved to just say high PSI is better than low PSI. Being fixated on PSI ignores orifice and passage sizes and a host of other design parameters.

Flow increases when the passages are wider with reduced pressure and pressure increases with reduced flow when they are smaller.

But the Car Care Nut said….

 

[PimTac]

Yup, I feel like I've pointed this out 100 times now. Fire a car up on 0w-16 in Winnipeg when it is -40C and that oil is MUCH thicker than 20w-50 in Florida. Engines simply CANNOT be that sensitive to viscosity.

I believe the point I was trying to make has been missed.

 

[DirectRejection]

What a crazy thread. There are too many variables involved to just say high PSI is better than low PSI. Being fixated on PSI ignores orifice and passage sizes and a host of other design parameters.

Flow increases when the passages are wider with reduced pressure and pressure increases with reduced flow when they are smaller.

Toyota does several things in this regard. Heat is controlled better. Parasitic loss is reduced.

Efficiency with simultaneous adequate protection is obtained.

Add in novel materials and manufacturing techniques in key areas. eg alumite, polymers, thin laser clad intake valves.

BITOGERs would be well served to read the rest of the post at toyota-club.net.