- Joined
- Nov 2, 2021
- Messages
- 1,116
It’s not a Doritos flavor it’s a Toyota engine they just didn’t design it last night.
Toyota's new electric oil pump.
- Thread starter Bill7
- Start date
Some folks are scared of everything… They’ll strap their child/grandchild in a plastic car seat or wear a plastic helmet on their motorcycle, but god forbid an engine have plastic... “It cannot be trusted.”
You have absolutely NO idea that this is "starving" the engine of oil and I'm pretty sure that would be a top priority for Toyota engineers to measure and monitor during the development of this oil pump.
We live in really bizarre times where nearly every person is full-on Dunning-Kruger about everything. Everyone second-guesses everything. Everyone pretends they are in some position to speak intelligently about things they can't possibly have any idea about because they simply don't have access to any of that information. Everyone chill, put whatever oil meets the manufacturer's spec, put whatever gas the manufacturer specifies, change the oil and filter on whatever schedule the manufacturer specifies, and LIVE YOUR LIFE thinking about OTHER things that are more important!
We live in really bizarre times where nearly every person is full-on Dunning-Kruger about everything. Everyone second-guesses everything. Everyone pretends they are in some position to speak intelligently about things they can't possibly have any idea about because they simply don't have access to any of that information. Everyone chill, put whatever oil meets the manufacturer's spec, put whatever gas the manufacturer specifies, change the oil and filter on whatever schedule the manufacturer specifies, and LIVE YOUR LIFE thinking about OTHER things that are more important!
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2021
- Messages
- 1,116
Google made technicians and scientists
For the sake of everyone who owns these vehicles, I honestly hope Toyota is true to its reputation and continues to produce engines that will last 200k to 300k miles. It will be interesting to see the long term effects of using an ultra thin oil with HTHS of 2.3 + oil pumps providing low oil pressure. I am starting to like Nissan's more and more - they spec their brand new 2022 Nissan Altimas with 5W-30 synthetic. So the future doesn't need to be 0W-16 and low pressure oil pumps if you buy Nissans.
Cars used to be bolted and welded together which resulted in rattles and squeaks. Every old car had the mysterious noise which one had to track down and make quiet usually with a matchbook flap or similar as a shim.
Nowadays cars are glued together. Just as strong and no more squeaks and rattles.
A lot of good things come with advancements.
This engine spec’ing 0w16 has been in production for 5 years, if it’s an issue then where are the dead bodies? Don’t you think we’d be seeing some wide spread failures in Camrys by now?
There was extensive Ford timing chain wear that occurred when Ford switched from 5w-30 to 5w-20. It took more than a decade for the wide spread timing chain wear to be attributed to Ford's switching to the 20 weight oil. Cumulative engine wear patterns can take a decade to surface and show the wear trends. This prompted the new ILSAC 6A spec to include a new test for Ford timing chain wear.
ILSAC GF6 Chain Wear Test
Here is a bit of info on the new GF6 chain wear test. It’s done under the banner of the ASTM. It’s called ASTM D8279. I have two screen shots and an ad from Valvoline referencing it. Enjoy .
bobistheoilguy.com
This is a very informative post (post #1 on that page) from user: 1975Toyota.
From Pennzoil on 0W16 Oils.
www.toyotanation.com
For the cars sold in the US, the identical car with identical engine sold in Europe or Australia is speced for higher HTHS oils in the owner's manual.
In those countries, there is no CAFE, so no reason to get the fraction of 1 MPG better fuel economy at the expense of engine wear.
Personally, I only use synthetic oils with HTHS >= 3.1, and I do 4k oil changes. I want my cars to last 300k miles.
Anyway, each of us is free to use what we want in our own cars. Hoping we all get to 300k.
Last edited:
Yes it’s all been debated ad nauseam. Toyotas have been fine on 20 for quite some time. Ford’s issues with 20 have little to do with Toyota. Until some Toyota engines are failing from these oils, its speculative. Well educated, but speculative none the less.There was extensive Ford timing chain wear that occurred when Ford switched from 5w-30 to 5w-20. It took more than a decade for the wide spread timing chain wear to be attributed to Ford's switching to the 20 weight oil. Cumulative engine wear patterns can take a decade to surface and show the wear trends. This prompted the new ILSAC 6A spec to include a new test for Ford timing chain wear.
ILSAC GF6 Chain Wear Test
Here is a bit of info on the new GF6 chain wear test. It’s done under the banner of the ASTM. It’s called ASTM D8279. I have two screen shots and an ad from Valvoline referencing it. Enjoy .bobistheoilguy.com
This is a very informative post (post #1 on that page) from user: 1975Toyota.
From Pennzoil on 0W16 Oils.
For the cars sold in the US, the identical car with identical engine sold in Europe or Australia is speced for higher HTHS oils in the owner's manual.
In those countries, there is no CAFE, so no reason to get the fraction of 1 MPG better fuel economy at the expense of engine wear.
Personally, I only use synthetic oils with HTHS >= 3.1, and I do 4k oil changes. I want my cars to last 300k miles.
Anyway, each of us is free to use what we want in our own cars. Hoping we all get to 300k.
The High Temperature / High Shear (HTHS) engine wear graph rises sharply when HTHS goes below 2.6. The 0W-16 has HTHS of 2.3. Combine that with an oil pump which prioritizes low oil pressure - it has me wondering if engine longevity was Toyota's #1 priority in making these design decisions or was it avoiding CAFE fines. We're all hoping that the magic of Toyota engineering will deliver using these design decisions. I hope it succeeds. If it doesn't succeed, the used car market in 5 to 10 years is going to be like a mine field.
They must not realized Glock and Sig Sauer have been using polymer lowers for a good while either. I think GM also used a Bakelite or Duraplast timing gear on the Iron Duke and the 2.2L Cavalier/S-10 engine as a cost cutting move too.
Aisin does the same on the 8 speed, at least the FWD variant, not sure about the RWD without googling but I'd imagine it does.
Said in part humor, it also took them how many generations of cars just to get radiators to last more than 70,000 miles.
Seems like we’ve gotten pretty good at making liquid pumps in the gas tank that pump those pressures and higher, which last much, much longer than they did in the 80s.
i wonder if the oil e-pump will develop into a recommended preemptive maintenance item. A new bitog ritual!
i wonder if the oil e-pump will develop into a recommended preemptive maintenance item. A new bitog ritual!
Good info, but it says that oil pump is chain driven. So looks like the variable flow and pressure is controlled by an electrically control solenoid valve. Just another type of mechanically driven, but ECU controlled variable volume oil pump like used on may newer vehicles.
Underneath the graph showing the pressure vs engine RPM is says:
"Trochoidal pump is driven via an additional short chain. The ECM controls the pump operation by oil pressure control valve, depending on the engine temperature, speed and other parameters. Under the action of pressure in the control chamber, a regulator moves and changes the mutual position of the internal and external rotors, thereby achieving a smooth change of the oil charge volume."
Just more inovation that is ultimately driven by CAFE to meet the targets and not pay CAFE fine money. The money flow bottom line matters, as they say.
But then BITOG would have to be shut down !!
And has been said many times, these cars that specify 0W-16 are actually designed for that low of an oil viscosity. There's a reason that 0W-16 has it's own ILSAC GF-6 designation and unique API symbol on the bottle. They do not want people putting 0W-16 in anything not specifying 0W-16.
