I quite literally have a reef tank with approximately 20-25k worth of livestock in it that is solely supported by one electric pump. There are failsafes in case it fails, which I am sure is also the case with this engine.
Toyota's new electric oil pump.
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I quite literally have a reef tank with approximately 20-25k worth of livestock in it that is solely supported by one electric pump. There are failsafes in case it fails, which I am sure is also the case with this engine.
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Yes Toyota engineers decided to starve engines of critical lubrication. Toyota Honda and Subaru are probably the top 3 vehicles for longterm ownership, now why would Toyota want to destroy cars prematurely? They want repeat customers not discouraged ones that will leave the Toyota brand.
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There may be a fail safe built in if it fails electrically. It may fail safe to mechanical. When motor driven electric power steering first come out they had a fail safe if the power steering motor failed there was ball bearings or some mechanical linkage that would magnetically engage giving you a mechanical steering.
No it could just flood your house Or leave you without potable water. Or leave you without AC when its 100 degrees. Our entire modern world is run with electric pumps, motors, compressors, etc. You can worry about it if you like I guess.
But it was mentioned by l15be in post #40 that it's a pure electrical powered pump ... so no mechanical fail safe.
The mechanical variable output type oil pumps that are simply "electronically controlled" do fail safe if the electric control of them fails.
I'm not worried ... just saying the ramifactions of a pump failure are different depending on the machine they are supporting.
Please do a google search and read how an EPS works. Short: It IS a mechanical steering.
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There are a whole lot of things on new cars that are dependent on electrical. The Skyactiv has a dual PSI oil output with off loading by bypass solenoid. This is the next step and makes sense.
Toyota’s target is extended reliability. Just not average Joe’s backyard mechanic thinking.
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I remember back in the 70's when Kawasaki came out with the 900 to counter the Honda 750. Always wondered how well it held up when Honda was pushing 7o+psi to Kawasaki's 9 PSI. I lived in the phoenix area then and when oil gets hot in an air cooled motor it gets thin..
Yep. The computers tell everything what to do. They know if you are going uphill or downhill or going around a curve or corner. They know the weather, rain or snow or clear and sunny. There is so much going on behind the scenes yet it is seamless to the person driving.
Critical bearings are self pumping. Just need a oil feed.
Yes, journal bearings are "self pumping" as long as they have an adequate source of oil, but when the bearing's supply pressure is above zero gauge pressure the oil flow through them is increased by the feed pressure. This doesn't necessarily increase the MOFT, but it does help cooling by increasing the flow rate through the bearing.
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Shel_B
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Just another point of view: Sweetie's 16yo Prius has never had an issue with problems related to stop-start. My friend Linda's Prius went 14 years without an issue ... she traded for a new Prius and the person that bought her old one has gotten two additional, trouble-free years from it. My friends in Nevada have had many trouble-free years with their hybrid Camry.
While mine is just one small data point, I'm not going to allow you, who may have no experience with such a system, to bash the concept and the technology. Please tell us about the experiences you've had buying new starters after seven years.
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Specifically what engines/years/makes/models come with the electric oil pumps? I did not see any new Camry's with electric oil pumps at my local dealership. Hybrids maybe? Many new cars come with variable oil pumps. Just replaced the failed variable oil pump solenoid in my of my cars at 20k miles. Some start/stop systems use a hydraulic accumulator or an electric ATF/DCTF/CVTF pump to maintain transmission fluid pressure otherwise you'll be stuck in neutral waiting for your gear engagement. Some engines use electric water pumps now too.
Thread makes too many assumptions, generalizations, and 'videos' from experts on youtube are all but useless.
Prelubers have been around forever. So, an electric oil pump should be easy to produce. Shouldn't be any more different than electric pump hydraulic power steering systems already mentioned. Anyone notice how those EPS systems used 200 to 300 VI EPS/PSF/CHF's? So, its logical to use thin motor oil, better oil temperature control, synthetic oil, and maybe that higher than average VI oil that we all saw here a few years back with some of the 20 grades, with an electric oil pump. 0w16 12 8 4 whatever could be a functional requirement in the future.
Also recently replaced the rad fan motors on one of my cars. So, I don't see an electric oil pump as the longest life mod. Unlike my refrigerator, the under hood environment is very demanding to everything. Besides the radiator fan motor, also lost the electric water pump motor too. Do you really want an oil pump motor, with molasses oil during an Alaskan/Canadian/Nordic winter? Can you imagine a 250-320 VI motor oil or its cost per quart?
Check out the Prime Rav4 oil pump motor. Didn't notice it on any of the hohum hybrids and not on any non-hybrids(yet) But, with new engines in a few years, who knows what they'll do in the future. Turbo Tundra? Turbo Highlander? Is the electric oil pump simply a preluber? did Toyota eliminate the chain driven pump altogether? Not my primary brand but should be researched by those ToyotaLexus fanboys here. Prime could run 30+ miles without running the engine so cold starts/restarts could be often, unlike a normal hybrid that runs engine more often and up to temps.
Food for thought..... the variable solenoid oil pump in my car stayed in full high output/pressure mode for the 1st 600 mile break-in before enabling MPG variable PWM mode. Is it MPG mode or PWM controlled wear increasing mode?
Electric oil pump.... and I thought my hydraulic radiator fans were cool 25+ year ago.
Thread makes too many assumptions, generalizations, and 'videos' from experts on youtube are all but useless.
Prelubers have been around forever. So, an electric oil pump should be easy to produce. Shouldn't be any more different than electric pump hydraulic power steering systems already mentioned. Anyone notice how those EPS systems used 200 to 300 VI EPS/PSF/CHF's? So, its logical to use thin motor oil, better oil temperature control, synthetic oil, and maybe that higher than average VI oil that we all saw here a few years back with some of the 20 grades, with an electric oil pump. 0w16 12 8 4 whatever could be a functional requirement in the future.
Also recently replaced the rad fan motors on one of my cars. So, I don't see an electric oil pump as the longest life mod. Unlike my refrigerator, the under hood environment is very demanding to everything. Besides the radiator fan motor, also lost the electric water pump motor too. Do you really want an oil pump motor, with molasses oil during an Alaskan/Canadian/Nordic winter? Can you imagine a 250-320 VI motor oil or its cost per quart?
Check out the Prime Rav4 oil pump motor. Didn't notice it on any of the hohum hybrids and not on any non-hybrids(yet) But, with new engines in a few years, who knows what they'll do in the future. Turbo Tundra? Turbo Highlander? Is the electric oil pump simply a preluber? did Toyota eliminate the chain driven pump altogether? Not my primary brand but should be researched by those ToyotaLexus fanboys here. Prime could run 30+ miles without running the engine so cold starts/restarts could be often, unlike a normal hybrid that runs engine more often and up to temps.
Food for thought..... the variable solenoid oil pump in my car stayed in full high output/pressure mode for the 1st 600 mile break-in before enabling MPG variable PWM mode. Is it MPG mode or PWM controlled wear increasing mode?
Electric oil pump.... and I thought my hydraulic radiator fans were cool 25+ year ago.
I don’t think Toyota is using a electric oil pump on the A25A-FKS/FXS. It’s a electronically-variable pump that uses a variable volume volute chamber(it’s still a gerotor pump at its core) controlled by a solenoid via PWM.
ZF and Mercedes is using a electric oil pump to maintain hydraulic pressure during start-stop operation on the 8HP/9HP and 9G-Tronic AFAIK.
ZF and Mercedes is using a electric oil pump to maintain hydraulic pressure during start-stop operation on the 8HP/9HP and 9G-Tronic AFAIK.
BMW started using electric water pumps in the mid-2000s until recently it seems. Toyota used them on the 2010-current Prius(and the C/V/Plug-In/Prime variants as well as the Lexus CT200h/HS250h) but the hybrid Camry/RAV4/Highlander/Sienna and their Lexus sisters still used a mechanical pump.
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Sounds like Toyota is not concerned with oil “thickness” viscosity what so ever.
An entirely ridiculous statement.
