Toyota, why are you absent from the EV races?

[alarmguy]

That is true. We live in a Tesla rich state, California. My wife was in South Carolina for a week a few months ago and she said Teslas were virtually nonexistent.

Scott

I cant imagine what CA looks like. We live in South Carolina and we see Tesla's and other EVs. Ummm... Im not sure what one would consider frequently though. But let me put it this way. IF we are out and about driving it's not unusual to see an EV at some point during the day, if we see two during the time we are out that is more notable. But not uncommon even say to see one in a parking space someplace.

I suspect in CA it's not uncommon to see multiple EVs when out driving around or in parking spaces.

 

[JeffKeryk]

It was posted here somewhere that the sales of EVs are strong in only a handful of states. California leads that charge. Most of the states have very little in sales of EVs. Geography and distance have influence there.

It’s very lopsided.

Absolutely true. The next question is, why?
CA leads the nation in many things, due to population size and large economy. Car companies often test their vehicles here to get a customer response.
How many Toyota Mirais are sold in CA vs other states? Because they are testing it here.

Besides Subaru in CO, can you name a state that sells more of any vehicle than CA? There probably are, but none come to mind.

 

[FZ1]

I know there’s some weird supply chain issues lately, but Toyota hybrid and PHEV demand (in the USA) didn’t seem so great in 2022.

Sales numbers. 2021 to 2022 percent change:
Prius Hybrid -26.2%
Prius Prime -52.7%
Camry Hybrid -9.8
Highlander Hybrid -32.9%
RAV4 Hybrid +23.9%
RAV4 Prime -33%
Venza Hybrid -45.7%

https://s3.amazonaws.com/toyota-cms-media/toyota-pdfs/TMNA US YE 2022 chart FINAL.pdf

Good info. Looks like it's time to dealer shop a Venza.

 

[slo town]

Absolutely true. The next question is, why?
CA leads the nation in many things, due to population size and large economy. Car companies often test their vehicles here to get a customer response.
How many Toyota Mirais are sold in CA vs other states? Because they are testing it here.

Besides Subaru in CO, can you name a state that sells more of any vehicle than CA? There probably are, but none come to mind.

California is home to 40M people. Of course they will sell more cars than any other state. I think the percentage by brand would more insightful with respect to what people want and what they can afford to buy.

Scott

 

[slo town]

Yes and it’s very localized as well. In the Seattle area one will see a lot of Teslas. Head over the passes into the east side of the state and they are scarce.

Same with large portions of California. Until the big C-word and people being able to work remotely, the only Teslas we saw where I live were those of weekend tourists partying and making noise in their VRBOs in once quiet downtown neighborhoods.

Scott

 

[JeffKeryk]

I cant imagine what CA looks like. We live in South Carolina and we see Tesla's and other EVs. Ummm... Im not sure what one would consider frequently though. But let me put it this way. IF we are out and about driving it's not unusual to see an EV at some point, if we see two during the time we are out that is more notable. But not uncommon even less say to see one in a parking space someplace.

Well, I can tell you my street. My cars are listed.
Next door left they have a leased Bolt (2nd one and had the Toyota/Tesla RAV4 EV before) and an NX hybrid. Susie sorta hates our Model 3; "too big brother". Ha. Their Prius is still in the family.
Across the street is an incredible sounding MBZ sports car and a Model Y Performance (I think it's a Performance).
Next to them is a CR-V hybrid and a Bolt and Odyssey.
Next to me other side is a big Volvo SUV, BMW 3 and a Model 3.

How is California? I sometimes refer to the Model 3 as "the new Corolla". But honestly, there are all kinds of cars here. We drive a lot.

 

[JeffKeryk]

California is home to 40M people. Of course they will sell more cars than any other state. I think the percentage by brand would more insightful with respect to what people want and what they can afford to buy.

Scott

Sure. That's my point. CA leads in many areas due to population and economy.

 

[slo town]

Although a change of subject on this meandering thread, I find this chart surprising, if not laughable. California and New York... What a pair. Pitiful. And this is coming from a Californian.

And I might add that half of California's in-state electrical power generation comes from natural gas powered plants. California leads the way - in myopic hypocrisy. Once again, this coming from a Californian...

Scott

 

[NismoNVT]

A joint 5 billion dollar Toyota/Panasonic HEV/EV battery plant is currently under construction in N.C. Scheduled to open in 2025.

Eggshells and hurt feelings abound in that partnership currently. The amount of trust that was lost in Toyotas takeover attempt is immense.

 

[PimTac]

Eggshells and hurt feelings abound in that partnership currently. The amount of trust that was lost in Toyotas takeover attempt is immense.

I haven’t seen any news that confirms this.

 

[NismoNVT]

I haven’t seen any news that confirms this.

Good luck finding a media house picking that up. Part how both companies operate and part its a nothing burger for clicks for most media site. They're too busy getting the sweet influencer money from other companies topping every award or comparo ever.

Have you driven the e-tron, i4, iX or any of the non-Tesla mainstream EV's? My favourite by far is the i4 M50, and that's based on BMW's CLAR architecture. It has its own floor pan but shares many body and interior bits with the 3 and 4-series and of course looks like a 3/4 series.

I know we discussed this earlier, frankstein CLAR. Looking forward to that clean sheet Neu Klasse.

 

[NismoNVT]

I ask because these are all shared architecture vehicles (as is the Mach-E, which I've also driven) but in driving them, I didn't find that a detriment. I did find materials selection to be significantly better as well.

The new, massive, BMW grille is certainly, ummm, interesting? LOL! I think the iX is pretty ugly but don't mind the look of the i4, particularly if blacked-out, which makes the grille more sedate.

I've got reviews of some of them posted on here.

Amusingly, my wife very much liked the extremely odd iX, despite its obvious ugliness. I couldn't understand why

We were also shopping the Model Y Performance, but I just couldn't get past the interior materials and lack of HUD or gauge cluster.

What vehicle runs on the Mach-E? I thought it was bespoke, but the upcoming ID-3 underlying platform would be shared with Ford.

 

[UG_Passat]

Toyota is a global manufacturer. Globally EV's are still a small part of the overall market.

I know people would like to think EV's require some magical knowledge, but if Toyota wanted an true EV they could have one tomorrow - simply replace the engine in their hybrid powertrain with a battery. They already have several "prime" plug in hybrids. All that's missing is a bigger battery.

They can't make enough cars already, so they probably figure no point in causing themselves more pain at the moment.

Toyota has a true EV. The BZ4X.

and the Lexus RZ

 

[NismoNVT]

Toyota has a true EV. The BZ4X.

Wheels fall off,
no preconditioning
weird battery pack depending on region.trim
Uses ICE Gas gauge like battery gauge where a huge portion of its available range is essentially hidden from the customer
no real frunk storage
only offer 6.8w vs 11wh charge rate
Cant find charging stations in the nav software (OTA update i think fixed this)
Those fender arches SMH
Dealer ADMs (those have started disappearing, and I have sourced a couple below MSRP).

Generally this product was not a good use of Toyota's EV resources.

 

[PimTac]

This has become a tit for tat thread. It’s getting absurd.

 

[gman2304]

Eggshells and hurt feelings abound in that partnership currently. The amount of trust that was lost in Toyotas takeover attempt is immense.

Toy and Pan must have kissed and made up. : Toyota/Panasonic announced in late 2022 they are expanding the new N.C. battery facility by adding more production capacity and are investing an additional 2.5 billion dollars in the new plant. The 2nd expansion since the initial ground breaking 1 year ago, the plant is expected to employ 2,100 people.

 

[alarmguy]

This has become a tit for tat thread. It’s getting absurd.

Im besides myself at the posts here, you are correct.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

https://insideevs.com/news/650150/toyota-says-ev-extremists-are-wrong/

Apparently Toyota has all the answers

Toyota is right but they're fighting a loosing battle. Public and private investors have thrown billions at the conversion to EV. The horse has left the barn folks!

 

[wpod]

I may be wrong but Tesla will be the car all others will be compared/ judged to for quite a while. Elon made quite a bold move putting out the Tesla especially if you consider the history of the vehicle manufactures over the past 70 or what ever years, it is a tough business and I am totally impressed what Elon did. Pretty good for an African !

 

[pezzy84]

Was this thread about Toyota? 7 pages in I forgot what the heck was going on.

In all reality we all know Toyota is very methodical in their moves but unless they have some behind the scenes EV development happening I feel like they will be left in the dust. Their first efforts are very half baked.

Honda is in the same boat having to partner with GM for their first EV "efforts" in North America.

In a shocking turn it seems Nissan is one upping the more popular home team players with many more years experience with good homegrown BEV models. I'm sure the executives at HonYota had a lot of jokes back when the first Leaf came about.