Toyota Strategy on EVs - ICE - h2

[alarmguy]

Its no big secret that I agree with him, think it was kind of cool hearing what I consider a sense of reason regarding the hysteria that some people think EVs are going to take over the world in a decade. As the worlds largest car manufacturer it takes guts and what I think is realistic thinking that might secure Toyotas world lead for at least the next few decades.
It will be interesting to watch how everything unfolds and I hope I am alive to see it. I think they may think H2 is the future but what do I know?
Good read and to me personally, wow, I think maybe Toyota's CEO is the visionary and will keep their lead in the world =

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/02/toy...icles-happy-dance.html?recirc=taboolainternal


I also will predict GM will realize another one of their grand mistakes and stop this nonsense that they will no longer produce ICE vehicles starting in 2035.
I dont think they can be that stupid but what do I know?
OR
Do I give them credit for fooling their competitors with that statement? na

last but not least ... wow, look at that new Supra, desire for cars like that will never go away in the near future.

 

[Wrenchturner44]

This is the great thing about a free-market economy and society. States that ban ICE vehicles will most likely have some residents who will move to states where the bans do not exist. They may do this because they cannot afford EVs or choose to move where the bans do not exist to states where more affordable options are available. Free markets have a way of self-regulating to imposed rules.

I applaud Toyota for having the vision and insight to understand free market practices and be ready to take advantage of how the market might adjust to consumer accomodations.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Toyota knows that EV's aren't quite ready to be the only choice yet. There is still more work to do in order to bring electric cars up to Toyota reliability standards.

 

[nthach]

Toyota’s biggest markets outside of the US is Southeast Asia, Australia and the Middle East/Africa. Those places ain’t going electric anytime soon. ICEs won’t go anywhere there for a while. Toyota has a cult-like following for the Hilux/Tacoma/Tundra/4R(GX)/LC(LX) - those guys don’t want to see those become all-electric. However, Prius sales are killed in Australia/NZ and Europe - the Prius should have been killed off a while ago, but Lyft/Uber and SF/LA/NYC is why they’re still sold - it’s the only car a Uber driver can make money with(if they can afford one) and it meets the “low emission” taxi rules in SF/LA and New York(NYC tried to push the Nissan NV200 on to their cabbies but they responded with Prii, Camry Hybrids and HiHys).

Fuel cells have a been a flop though - Toyota would be wise to sell that line of business to Ballard in Vancouver, BC and form an alliance with them. Toyota really wants solid-state batteries - there’s reason why they’re still using NiMH in their hybrids - it’s cheap, proven and safe in the event of a collision or fire.

 

[alarmguy]

Toyota’s biggest markets outside of the US is Southeast Asia, Australia and the Middle East/Africa. Those places ain’t going electric anytime soon. ICEs won’t go anywhere there for a while. Toyota has a cult-like following for the Hilux/Tacoma/Tundra/4R(GX)/LC(LX) - those guys don’t want to see those become all-electric. However, Prius sales are killed in Australia/NZ and Europe - the Prius should have been killed off a while ago, but Lyft/Uber and SF/LA/NYC is why they’re still sold - it’s the only car a Uber driver can make money with(if they can afford one) and it meets the “low emission” taxi rules in SF/LA and New York(NYC tried to push the Nissan NV200 on to their cabbies but they responded with Prii, Camry Hybrids and HiHys).

Fuel cells have a been a flop though - Toyota would be wise to sell that line of business to Ballard in Vancouver, BC and form an alliance with them. Toyota really wants solid-state batteries - there’s reason why they’re still using NiMH in their hybrids - it’s cheap, proven and safe in the event of a collision or fire.

Yup, seems like they have all bases covered pretty well and very successful at what they are doing. I know you dont agree but you cant argue success.

Regarding "Fuel cells have a been a flop though" Well, electric vehicles were a flop 100 years ago, so no saying what will happen. People have to understand if the world is going to be EV in the future they have their head in the sand on where the electricity is going to come from. No way on planet earth will CA or NY pull off a EV only state in the future. You have to remember, these are politicians talking not scientists. (please no politics) Its literally impossible to replace fossil fuels with fossil electricity or nuclear in 13 years. Laughable, you cant even get a power plant built in those states. What I am saying is, I agree with Toyota CEO he knows that too. This whole bad ICE sales thing is just talk, words, fluff void of reality.

ANYWAY Just saying, you cant argue with success, time will tell, we will see how Tesla and other makers survive the onslaught of EVs, including the 30 new models of EVs coming from Toyota. toyota-ceo-announces-automakers-battery-ev-plans.html

Im so excited to see the day that Toyota and ummm myself (as well as many others, even in here) are proved right. *LOL*
Hey you all, Im just having fun here, dont lose sleep over it !

 

[The Critic]

ANYWAY Just saying, you cant argue with success, time will tell, we will see how Tesla and other makers survive the onslaught of EVs, including the 30 new models of EVs coming from Toyota. toyota-ceo-announces-automakers-battery-ev-plans.html

Im so excited to see the day that Toyota and ummm myself (as well as many others, even in here) are proved right. *LOL*
Hey you all, Im just having fun here, dont lose sleep over it !

I am a pretty big fan of the PHEV concept - 40 miles of EV range with a hybrid for the rest of the time. No range anxiety, but enough pure EV range for most daily driving. Pretty sure my next vehicle will be of this variety. I have almost 230K miles on the original HV pack on my Prius.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I wish Toyota well. I was super excited about the Mirai when it was 1st announced; I was ready to buy one. Sounded like such forward thinking. Then it came out; I ran to Toyota, only to see the ugliest "vehicle" I had ever seen. I was so disappointed and mortified I wanted to puke.

As the next years went by, I spoke with several owners. Everyone of them was sorry they got that car. So yeah, I wish Toyota better success with future EV endeavours, be it Hydrogen or pure electric fueled.

Conversly. after one up close look and drive (actually only wifey drove), I bought a Tesla.

 

[SeaJay]

Finally, a large company that is pushing back ever so slightly on mob-think that we need to be all electric and carbon free within a ridiculously short time frame of a dozen years.

 

[oldcodger]

At my age and location an electric vehicle will not work. Not worth the price. I can see a possible hybrid in my future. Seems to me Toyota is taking a very good path, with options for the consumer.

 

[loneryder]

Finally, a large company that is pushing back ever so slightly on mob-think that we need to be all electric and carbon free within a ridiculously short time frame of a dozen years.

I've always maintained that it is a fad...the latest bandwagon that everyone has jumped on. You know what happens to bandwagons.

 

[Shel_B]

I am a pretty big fan of the PHEV concept - 40 miles of EV range with a hybrid for the rest of the time. No range anxiety, but enough pure EV range for most daily driving. Pretty sure my next vehicle will be of this variety. I have almost 230K miles on the original HV pack on my Prius.

This was the conversation I was having with some of my EV-owner friends. A RAV4 Prime would be pretty close to a perfect vehicle for my situation.

 

[demarpaint]

Kudos to Toyota, I think they'll come out winners over the long run with their smart decision.

 

[Passport1]

Huge differences.

Both EVs and ICE vehicles require storage for their power. The EV stores its power in a battery which is expensive, needs periodic replacement and can't be produced with out ecological damage. The ICE vehicle has its energy already stored in the earth which doesn't go down like an electrical grid, is harmed very little to extract petroleum and won't need replacement for a billion years.

 

[gogydm]

We have one of those new Mirais in the family car pool. It's about a year and a half old and has just shy of 25k miles. Other than a couple software updates and a few days where hydrogen was really hard to find in our area, there haven't been any problems.

 

[PimTac]

I like that they are offering choices and within those choices you can drive the system you want. For a short trips just set it to battery only. Other times it can run in hybrid mode.

 

[nthach]

I wish Toyota well. I was super excited about the Mirai when it was 1st announced; I was ready to buy one. Sounded like such forward thinking. Then it came out; I ran to Toyota, only to see the ugliest "vehicle" I had ever seen. I was so disappointed and mortified I wanted to puke.

As the next years went by, I spoke with several owners. Everyone of them was sorry they got that car. So yeah, I wish Toyota better success with future EV endeavours, be it Hydrogen or pure electric fueled.

Conversly. after one up close look and drive (actually only wifey drove), I bought a Tesla.

The 1st gen Mirai was basically an uglier 3rd gen Prius with a fuel cell stack and H2 tank instead of the 2ZR-FXE 1.8L I4 and gas tank. It was also hand-made at the LFA skunk works. The 2nd gen model is made at a regular Toyota plant and uses the RWD Lexus variant of TNGA, so the fuel tanks can be placed in the driveshaft tunnel.

IMO, the oil companies should have bet on hydrogen - it’s expensive but handles like current fuels and can be created from reformation of methane/butane/propane that oil refineries produce a lot of. But I don’t think fuel cells will go beyond buses Japan, Vancouver, BC and Oakland/LA/Palm Springs, CA. And even so, the bus builders and truck makers, as well as Cummins prefer BEVs.

 

[nthach]

This was the conversation I was having with some of my EV-owner friends. A RAV4 Prime would be pretty close to a perfect vehicle for my situation.

The Volt had rave reviews and introduced many to GM - too bad it was killed. It’s basically an BEV with a bigger REx, unlike a PHEV like a Prius/RAV4 Prime, Fusion Energi or Crosstrek Plug-In which behave more like regular hybrids.

BMW did the same range extender stunt with the I3 but instead of using a bigger 4 cylinder like GM did, they used a scooter engine and limited REx range.

 

[DwightFrye]

Toyota and VW will likely be the major players in the EV market along with Tesla by 2027 or so. I suspect that a newer generation of legislators that aren't brain damaged like the current crop will realize that just because they mandate that all new vehicles sold in a State by 2035 doesn't mean that (a) consumers will accept that, and (b) doesn't mean that the infrastructure is anywhere near ready to support it and the mandate will be delayed.

My concern with Toyota is quality. They used to be a dead solid choice if you wanted a dependable vehicle. Along with Honda. And both seem to have slipped considerably. Will Toyota be able to market EV's that are at the top of the game with regards to performance and reliability ? I guess we'll see.

 

[alarmguy]

We have one of those new Mirais in the family car pool. It's about a year and a half old and has just shy of 25k miles. Other than a couple software updates and a few days where hydrogen was really hard to find in our area, there haven't been any problems.

Glad you posted in here.
I think h2 EVs are the only way to a future with EVs.

Besides the electric grid issues for todays battery only EV.

The amount of energy and damage being done to Mother Earth and water by mining vast amounts of lithium, is devastating. I mean, like, horrible.
People have no clue as to how much energy is consumed producing these EV batteries, and the environmental impact of mining hundreds of thousands of pounds of earth to produce one lithium battery and the associated chemicals used. At some point in time, years? decade? the public will catch on, maybe.
I am sure the process will one day come under scrutiny if not already because major EV makers want to look "green" and they by themselves might be the vehicle towards making the process better.

If one is interested, it easy as heck to research on the internet and dont want this to turn into a banned topic.
But its a reason why I think the Toyota strategy is an important one, open to new ideas instead of tunnel vision = most successful companies on earth for the long haul..
I have no idea what the outcome will be, I do know the power grid in NY and CA will not be able to handle eliminating even 25% of gasoline usage anytime soon and I cant wait to see if the major vehicle makers who say they are going all electric turn over all their ICE sales to Toyota.
Gosh, if I knew for sure those companies truly were going to abandon ICE Toyota would seem like a great play. But no way will they, I think, unless h2? have no idea

 

[OVERKILL]

Glad you posted in here.
I think h2 EVs are the only way to a future with EVs.

Except H2 production, right now, is almost entirely fossil based.

Besides the electric grid issues for todays battery only EV.

Those same issues exist for producing hydrogen using electrolysis.

The amount of energy and damage being done to Mother Earth and water by mining vast amounts of lithium, is devastating. I mean, like, horrible.

Sure, but there's also mining involved for the catalysts for fuel cells.

People have no clue as to how much energy is consumed producing these EV batteries, and the environmental impact of mining hundreds of thousands of pounds of earth to produce one lithium battery and the associated chemicals used. At some point in time, years? decade? the public will catch on, maybe.

People also aren't aware as to how much methane is consumed in the reformation as well as powering the reformation process, to produce hydrogen either.

I am sure the process will one day come under scrutiny if not already because major EV makers want to look "green" and they by themselves might be the vehicle towards making the process better.

Everything is extractive, the sooner we come to grips with that the better we can discuss it in earnest and how to minimize it.