Why do you suppose Toyota recommends 5,000 mile OCI and Honda 10,000 miles “under normal operating conditions”? Is Toyota still stinging from their much ballyhooed sludge problems and they’re trying to prevent a similar debacle? Are the ’05 and ’06 Toyota 4-bangers that much harder on oil than the Honda’s? What does one mfg. know that the other doesn't?
Toyota-recommended OCI vs. Honda
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Personally i would never go that long (10K) on dino oil, 5K seems alittle more resonable.
Yes
No, but Toyota took a big percieved reliability hit by those who know about the sludge issue and are probably are trying to regain their credibility in recomended service.
Extra service does not cost Toyota anything, increases dealer revenues and solves their problem if the 5k OCI is followed.
Now if Toyota wanted to truley be cutting edge.. Seeing there relationship with GM they could purchase rights to the OLM system and begin to use it on their vehicles.
Also Lexus has much longer recomended OCI's many with the same engines. Toyota may percieve that the Lexus owners are more likely to take there vehicles in for recomended service.
But an annoying change oil Now light would work well too.
Whoops double post, Would a mod please delete THX.
I believe that the Toyota engines are still harder on oil.
Even though after the infamous Sludge Monster fiasco Toyota has made certain changes to the design it will take some for Toyota to totally redesign them.
It's an extremely expensive and lengthy process.
Even though after the infamous Sludge Monster fiasco Toyota has made certain changes to the design it will take some for Toyota to totally redesign them.
It's an extremely expensive and lengthy process.
I only know about the Toyota sludge problem from what I have read. But from that, it seems to make sense to me that they simply want to play it safe and ensure more frequent oil changes to prevent a similar problem.
Honda engines are probably a little better as their motors have had legendary dependability for years with very few problems. People have said they are bullet proof and you could run tea in these things and get by with it.
In my new Ridgeline for example, there is no OCI recommended, even for the factory fill. They simply say to follow the OLM (all cars should have this device) and change oil when the life expectancy is between 15%-0%. The first service due notice usually comes on after between 5000 and 7500 miles, depending on driving habits and conditions. The 0% or "past due" notice I would think would come on after another one or two thousand miles. The only exception listed in the manual of my Honda is if you put so few miles on that the service notice never comes on then go ahead and change oil once a year.
Honda engines are probably a little better as their motors have had legendary dependability for years with very few problems. People have said they are bullet proof and you could run tea in these things and get by with it.
In my new Ridgeline for example, there is no OCI recommended, even for the factory fill. They simply say to follow the OLM (all cars should have this device) and change oil when the life expectancy is between 15%-0%. The first service due notice usually comes on after between 5000 and 7500 miles, depending on driving habits and conditions. The 0% or "past due" notice I would think would come on after another one or two thousand miles. The only exception listed in the manual of my Honda is if you put so few miles on that the service notice never comes on then go ahead and change oil once a year.
The '06 Camry, for instance, does have a service reminder dash light that begins to flash immediately after start up beginning at approx. 4,800 miles. At 5,000 it comes on and stays on. Thankfully the reset instructions are provided in the owner's manual.
Too, dealers currently are putting the full court press on new car buyers promoting Toyota's "tires for life" program, requiring car owners to come to the "stealership" at 5,000 mile intervals for oil changes and tire rotation. Toyota then will presumably replace your tires at no cost "when needed." (When the dealership thinks the tires need to be replaced.) I imagine by the time you've paid for all those oil changes, tire rotations, and they've upsold you on every other kind of imaginable service procedure you've long since paid for a set of tires.
I opted out of the "tires for life" promotion. I didn't want to be put in a position of arguing with some service manager that it was time for a tire replacement; I'm more picky about when I replace my tires than many people I suspect.
Too, dealers currently are putting the full court press on new car buyers promoting Toyota's "tires for life" program, requiring car owners to come to the "stealership" at 5,000 mile intervals for oil changes and tire rotation. Toyota then will presumably replace your tires at no cost "when needed." (When the dealership thinks the tires need to be replaced.) I imagine by the time you've paid for all those oil changes, tire rotations, and they've upsold you on every other kind of imaginable service procedure you've long since paid for a set of tires.
I opted out of the "tires for life" promotion. I didn't want to be put in a position of arguing with some service manager that it was time for a tire replacement; I'm more picky about when I replace my tires than many people I suspect.
Yeah, that is so hilarious and wrong. My mom has an 04 Camry and I took it to the dealer for an oil change about 6 months ago and they said that I was due for the 15k service which was check this, that, fuel system cleaner, oil change, tire rotation, and air filter. Being a BITOGer I declined the service and immediately the guy was like "you will void the tires for life deal". Thank goodness for my mom that I like reading the owner manuals and I'm not easily worried by the dealer. Saved her $200 right there for her new tires in...oh 40k maybe. I own a Civic and I don't believe in such a long service interval since the average Joe will most likely use dino.
Toyota using OLM. That would be a good start. I'm just wondering if I go past my 5K OCI what would they really do?
The only thing I ever hear from a service writer is change your oil every 3k miles. If you don't change your oil every 3k miles your wheels will fall off. We all know that the service writers are the last word in vehicle maintenance and not many will be promoting the longer 5k oci. I can't imagine the trauma experienced by a Honda service writer that would agree to follow the monitor and say that going beyond 3k miles would be okay. That's going to be like taking a pay cut....yiikes.
My experience with McGrath Honda in St. Charles Il. has been nothing but positive. When I have had problems with my cars, they have shown me the problem (and I am very familiar with the mechanics of a car) and have always fixed it correctly the first time (with one exception, which they corrected at no cost to me). Their prices are reasonable and they accept competitor's coupons for all services. They routinely knock off another 10% off my bill even after including the discount from coupons. They never complain when I bring my own oil and request the "AO1" filter for my Hondas. They are always friendly and courteous. When I wanted OEM tires and they were not in stock, the service manager found them at a competitor and only charged me the price quoted by another competitor in the newspaper. Remarkable. Finally, they never suggest 3000 mile OCIs. They go strictly by the owner's manual (5000 mile OCI for my 2003 under severe conditions and 3750 mile OCI for my 1999 under severe conditions). This is fair enough. They want to err on the conservative side, considering most of their customers drive in Chicagoland and get stuck in traffic a lot. No, I don't work for Honda. I'm just a fan, like I am of this web site.
Most, but probably not all service writers are on commission and most, not all, dealer service departments push services beyond those stated in the owners manual, annual coolant flushes, fuel injector cleanings, and others. One advantage of buying or leasing a luxury make is that all service is included during the warranty period, so no upselling is possible until the car is out of warranty.
I was never offered a "tires for life" program with my '05 Tundra, trucks must be excluded. Too bad, since OE "all terrain" tires tend not to last very long.
I was never offered a "tires for life" program with my '05 Tundra, trucks must be excluded. Too bad, since OE "all terrain" tires tend not to last very long.
and you wouldn't want them to put the cheapest tire on the car either, so why not opt out and buy something safe for yourself.
My parents have an 03 Lexus ES300 and an 05 ES 330. The 03 OCI recommendation is 4month/5k severe, and 6 month/7.5k normal. The 05 has one OCI recommendation, 6 month/5k miles. The 05 has a maintenance light that comes on at about 4,500 miles to remind you of the 5k oil change.
My biggest issue with these cars is not the shorter OCI than Honda, but the unpleasant and at times dangerous performance of the automatic transmission (hesistation in some situations as well has harsh downshifts at times). The 05 is worse than the 03 in our case. I don't know if it is the transmission software, engine management software (for emissions), the throttle by wire, or how the whole system interacts. If you follow this topic, there is a lot of variability between cars. I would recommend that you test drive well the specific car you are going to buy if it is a Toyota/Lexus with the 5 speed transmission.
Yes, they tried to sell us the tires for life; of course it is a way for the dealer to get you in the habit of coming to them for service.
My biggest issue with these cars is not the shorter OCI than Honda, but the unpleasant and at times dangerous performance of the automatic transmission (hesistation in some situations as well has harsh downshifts at times). The 05 is worse than the 03 in our case. I don't know if it is the transmission software, engine management software (for emissions), the throttle by wire, or how the whole system interacts. If you follow this topic, there is a lot of variability between cars. I would recommend that you test drive well the specific car you are going to buy if it is a Toyota/Lexus with the 5 speed transmission.
Yes, they tried to sell us the tires for life; of course it is a way for the dealer to get you in the habit of coming to them for service.
I don't buy a car based on its recommended service. Plenty of Toyota's still chugging along with umpteen miles on 'em. Not to mention that Honda doesn't have anything like the Matrix(practical wise for me) (CRV is Rav 4's game)
I think the 5K change is for severe service and 7500 OCI for normal on my 05 Matrix. Could be wrong, haven't looked at the manual since I bought the thing.
I never heard of this tires for life thing. If it means putting on another set of Continental CH95's fugggat about it...glad I never heard of it
I think the 5K change is for severe service and 7500 OCI for normal on my 05 Matrix. Could be wrong, haven't looked at the manual since I bought the thing.
I never heard of this tires for life thing. If it means putting on another set of Continental CH95's fugggat about it...glad I never heard of it
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