Toyota/NHTSA Cover Up ??

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Cut and paste from an LA Times article :

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/nov/08/business/fi-toyota-recall8


"Runaway Toyota cases ignored

Safety investigators dismissed numerous reports of sudden acceleration, then said data were lacking.
November 08, 2009|Ralph Vartabedian and Ken Bensinger
More than 1,000 Toyota and Lexus owners have reported since 2001 that their vehicles suddenly accelerated on their own, in many cases slamming into trees, parked cars and brick walls, among other obstacles, a Times review of federal records has found.
The crashes resulted in at least 19 deaths and scores of injuries over the last decade, records show. Federal regulators say that is far more than any other automaker has experienced.
Owner complaints helped trigger at least eight investigations into sudden acceleration in Toyota and Lexus vehicles by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration in the last seven years. Toyota Motor Corp. recalled fewer than 85,000 vehicles in response to two of those probes, and the federal agency closed six other cases without finding a defect.
But those investigations systematically excluded or dismissed the majority of complaints by owners that their Toyota and Lexus vehicles had suddenly accelerated, which sharply narrowed the scope of the probes, the Times investigation revealed.
Federal officials eliminated broad categories of sudden-acceleration complaints, including cases in which drivers said they were unable to stop runaway cars using their brakes; incidents of unintended acceleration lasting more than a few seconds; and reports in which owners did not identify the possible causes of the problem.
NHTSA officials used the exclusions as part of their rationale to close at least five of the investigations without finding any defect, because -- with fewer incidents to consider -- the agency concluded there were not enough reported problems to warrant further inquiry. In a 2003 Lexus probe, for example, the agency threw out all but one of 37 customer complaints cited in a defect petition. It then halted further investigation, saying it "found no data indicating the existence of a defect trend."
Meanwhile, fatal crashes involving Toyota vehicles continued to mount.
In a written statement, the NHTSA said its records show that a total of 15 people died in crashes related to possible sudden acceleration in Toyota vehicles from the 2002 model year and newer, compared with 11 such deaths in vehicles made by all other automakers.
The Times located federal and other records of 19 fatalities involving Toyota and Lexus vehicles from the same model years in which sudden or unintended acceleration may have been a factor, as well as more than 1,000 reports by owners that their vehicles had suddenly accelerated. Independent safety expert Sean Kane, president of Safety Research and Strategies, said he has identified nearly 2,000 sudden-acceleration cases for Toyota vehicles built since 2001."
 
at this point all we can hope is that this pushes some reform through to make them better.
 
Keep in the back of your mind that all automakers have experienced runaway acceleration with their product. One has to allow that some of these incidents are a result of the person mistaking the gas pedal for the brake, a la Audi back in the mid-80s.

The story is usually the same... the person is stomping on the gas pedal, all the while their brain is telling them that they are stomping on the brake. Hence, they truly believe that something caused the brakes to fail at the same time the accelerator ran away, and that is their story.

I'm not saying this is the case with Toyota, but there is no mention of demographics in this report, or how many of these incidents can be bracketed to "operator error".
 
"Keep in the back of your mind that all automakers have experienced runaway acceleration with their product. One has to allow that some of these incidents are a result of the person mistaking the gas pedal for the brake, a la Audi back in the mid-80s."

Where's there's smoke......

"The crashes resulted in at least 19 deaths and scores of injuries over the last decade, records show. Federal regulators say that is far more than any other automaker has experienced."
 
"December 23, 2009 by Irv Miller
Setting the Record Straight
Today the Los Angeles Times published an article that wrongly and unfairly attacks Toyota’s integrity and reputation.

While outraged by the Times’ attack, we were not totally surprised. The tone of the article was foreshadowed by the phrasing of a lengthy list of detailed questions that the Times emailed to us recently. The questions were couched in accusatory terms.

Despite the tone, we answered each of the many questions and sent them to the Times. Needless to say, we were disappointed by the article that appeared today, and in particular by the fact that so little of our response to the questions appeared in the article and much of what was used was distorted.

Toyota has a well-earned reputation for integrity and we will vigorously defend it.

For a more complete and accurate picture of the issues raised by the Times, click here to read the Times’ questions and the full text of Toyota’s answers.

Irv Miller
Group Vice President, Environmental & Public Affairs
Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc."

-----------------------------------------------------------

There is nothing to see here. Move along now.
Keep moving forward please. Move along.

"Oh what a feeling"
crackmeup2.gif
 
At least people are starting to compare apples and apples.

Imports are no longer getting a free pass with the media (MSM) The MSM is starting to objectively critique the imports as well as the domestics.

It is one thing to expect a vehicle to perform well for the 1st 5 years, but quite another to have it perform for the additional 5-10 years it should remain on the road.
 
Every automaker receives hundreds of unintended acceleration complaints, each and every year. And the vast majority of them are investigated and dismissed.

I don't believe that any of these automakers are colluding with the government to kill people.
 
"I don't believe that any of these automakers are colluding with the government to kill people."

But maaaaybe some would cover up a problem to maximize profits?
Follow the money trail!

I'm sure that the families of the deceased would like some transparency instead of stonewalling.
 
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True, but there's also evidence that Toyota had been working with NHTSA before any of this became public.

If every automaker gets reports of unintended acceleration, it makes sense (yes, fianancially) to delve into the problem instead of immediately recalling every vehicle on the road.

Hypothetically, let's say that GM has been using the CTS DBW assembly on their cars. And let's say next month, they start recalling cars. Would the hundreds of cases of unintended acceleration they received last year/every year - cases that were dismissed without a recall - now point to a cover up or government collusion?
 
"Make: TOYOTA Model: CAMRY
Model Year: 2009
Manufacturer: TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC. Mfr's Report Date: OCT 05, 2009
NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number: 09V388000
N/A
NHTSA Action Number: N/A
Component: VEHICLE SPEED CONTROL:ACCELERATOR PEDAL
Potential Number of Units Affected: 4260319
Summary:
TOYOTA IS RECALLING CERTAIN MODEL YEAR 2004-2010 PASSENGER VEHICLES. THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL CAN GET STUCK IN THE WIDE OPEN POSITION DUE TO ITS BEING TRAPPED BY AN UNSECURED OR INCOMPATIBLE DRIVER'S FLOOR MAT.
Consequence:
A STUCK OPEN ACCELERATOR PEDAL MAY RESULT IN VERY HIGH VEHICLE SPEEDS AND MAKE IT DIFFICULT TO STOP THE VEHICLE, WHICH COULD CAUSE A CRASH, SERIOUS INJURY OR DEATH."

"Potential Number of Units Affected: 4260319"

WOW !!

Surely that is a typo.
It's on their website....
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/recalls/results.cfm
 
I don't suspect a cover-up.

I do suspect that the NHTSA was slack on doing their job. At the very least they should respond with the statistical analysis that they used to ignore this issue. The LA Times story indicated that this happened to Toyotas more than other other brands.

Of course everyone is working with the memory of the botched Audi situation. The Audi 5000 was the subject of much bad press and an explosion of lawsuits for "sudden acceleration". Audi suffered large losses and a bad reputation. Purchasers lost big on the resale value of the cars. And the final conclusion was that the only mechanical deficiency was that the pedals were closer together than some other cars.

The real cause was the demographics, despite statistics that "showed" the car was defective.

German luxury sport sedans were very trendy in the mid-1980s. Statistically, many U.S. purchasers of that Audi model had previously been driving large domestic cars with automatic transmissions. And that correlation was even more pronounced with those that reported "unintended acceleration". (And there was probably a correlation with the type of person that would hire a lawyer and blame someone else.)

So at one level the statistics can indicate there is a problem, but it can also point out where the problem lies. Did the NHTSA really do their job, looking at possible causes? Or did they dismiss all "sudden acceleration" complaints because of the Audi 5000 debacle?
 
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The LA Times sure does seem to have it out for Toyota. I wonder who's bankrolling them to write these articles.
 
Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
The LA Times sure does seem to have it out for Toyota. I wonder who's bankrolling them to write these articles.


I'm quite sure that Toyota retains a legal staff that will sue their pants off if there are any factual errors.

Are there any factual errors?
 
I do not see conspiracy. Do you?

Rather I see complacency and incompetence.
Closely followed by Toyota's version of "hide the decline".
 
Business News, Cayuga County, Crime & Safety, Top News »
Black box could determine if fatal Auburn crash involving Toyota Camry was caused by stuck gas pedal
By Charley Hannagan / The Post-Standard
January 27, 2010, 1:35PM

Auburn, NY -- Auburn Police hope the information collected from a “black box” taken from a 2010 Toyota Camry will clear up the mystery surrounding a fatal accident in November.

On Tuesday, the Japanese automaker recalled 2.3 million vehicles, representing eight models including certain 2007-2010 Camrys, because of problems with the gas pedal sticking.

On Nov. 27, Colleen A. Trousdale, 56, of Port Byron, died after the Ford Taurus she was driving was struck by a 2010 Camry driven by Barbara A. Kraushaar, 55, of Auburn.

The Camry went through a red light at North Street and Arterial West (Route 5).

In December, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration investigators looked into the accident at police request.

As is the case with many newer models, Kraushaar’s vehicle contained an event data recorder, a device similar to a black box carried on aircraft, that recorded information about the car before the crash.

Police have spoken with Kraushaar, who had a medical issue in connection with the crash, and don't believe that she intended to run the red light, Lt. Shawn Butler said. Now they need to determine if the crash was caused by mechanical problems or by the driver's health issues, or both, he said.

Only Toyota has the equipment to download information from the recorder, Butler said. Police are waiting for NHTSA investigators to meet with Toyota representatives to download the information, he said.

“We’re kind of at a standstill. It will be interesting to see what information we can get from the black box,” Butler said.

Toyota has recalled the following vehicles: 2009-2010 RAV4, 2009-2010 Corolla, 2009-2010 Matrix, 2005-2010 Avalon, Certain 2007-2010 Camry, 2010 Highlander, 2007-2010 Tundra and 2008-2010 Sequoia.

The automaker has ordered dealerships to stop selling these vehicles and has stopped production of them at five factories.
 
Originally Posted By: Rickey
But maaaaybe some would cover up a problem to maximize profits?
Follow the money trail!

I could see that. As long as the profits are maximized enough to more than cover the incurred liability costs associated with knowingly killing off your customers.

My gut feeling is that any increased profits Toyota realized by possibly covering this up, wouldn't even come close to the liability costs.
 
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