Toyota/Lexus Owners
- Thread starter Speak2Mountain
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: CR94
There was nothing visible caught in my OEM Denso cartridge filter after 17,540 miles, except a few tiny black (carbon?) particles. Its condition was still very good.
This could mean that it didn't do much filtering.
That sounds like a very long OCI.
There was nothing visible caught in my OEM Denso cartridge filter after 17,540 miles, except a few tiny black (carbon?) particles. Its condition was still very good.
This could mean that it didn't do much filtering.
That sounds like a very long OCI.
I'm a big Nippondenso fan but not as much of a Denso fan. When Nippendenso (Japan Electrical Equipment) became a global company and renamed itself Denso (Electrical Equipment), it started labeling parts made in third-party factories Denso or they simply grew too big to assure the old Nippondenso quality.
I really liked the always cute- and usually exotic- and sometimes obscure-looking Nippondenso parts. They didn't always live up to reliability though. I remember that EGR vacuum modulator having its diaphragm torn more than once and other emissions components failing as well. But they did make some quality parts, usually of higher quality than their competitors. They were certainly an ultimate example of the meticulous 1980s Japanese engineering, which has long fallen over thanks to the rise of capitalism turning Japan into a service-sector country from a manufacturing country, sort of like what happened in USA. The latest is that Panasonic is entirely ceasing its consumer electronics, which had started with the discontinuation of its flagship plasma TVs four years ago.
I really liked the always cute- and usually exotic- and sometimes obscure-looking Nippondenso parts. They didn't always live up to reliability though. I remember that EGR vacuum modulator having its diaphragm torn more than once and other emissions components failing as well. But they did make some quality parts, usually of higher quality than their competitors. They were certainly an ultimate example of the meticulous 1980s Japanese engineering, which has long fallen over thanks to the rise of capitalism turning Japan into a service-sector country from a manufacturing country, sort of like what happened in USA. The latest is that Panasonic is entirely ceasing its consumer electronics, which had started with the discontinuation of its flagship plasma TVs four years ago.
Originally Posted By: Y_K
Lowly Denso filters were used by a dealer servicing the Million Mile Tundra. Amsoil 'studies' are for gullible consumers with control delusions and misplaced sense of self-importance, better known as trolls.
I agree, I wouldn't believe anything from a company that says you can go 30k on an oil change, but that's just me!
Lowly Denso filters were used by a dealer servicing the Million Mile Tundra. Amsoil 'studies' are for gullible consumers with control delusions and misplaced sense of self-importance, better known as trolls.
I agree, I wouldn't believe anything from a company that says you can go 30k on an oil change, but that's just me!
Originally Posted By: Y_K
Lowly Denso filters were used by a dealer servicing the Million Mile Tundra. Amsoil 'studies' are for gullible consumers with control delusions and misplaced sense of self-importance, better known as trolls.
Opinions without facts are useless.
This said, you don't even need the scientific Amsoil data. Just compare used oil filters coming from the same Toyota engines. Thailand-made Denso comes very clean, indicating low efficiency, whereas most other oil filters are saturated in gunk, showing that they are actually filtering.
Whether you need good oil filtration or not is another subject.
Lowly Denso filters were used by a dealer servicing the Million Mile Tundra. Amsoil 'studies' are for gullible consumers with control delusions and misplaced sense of self-importance, better known as trolls.
Opinions without facts are useless.
This said, you don't even need the scientific Amsoil data. Just compare used oil filters coming from the same Toyota engines. Thailand-made Denso comes very clean, indicating low efficiency, whereas most other oil filters are saturated in gunk, showing that they are actually filtering.
Whether you need good oil filtration or not is another subject.
Originally Posted By: Y_K
Lowly Denso filters were used by a dealer servicing the Million Mile Tundra. Amsoil 'studies' are for gullible consumers with control delusions and misplaced sense of self-importance, better known as trolls.
If you write that, can you prove it? Amsoil just makes up lies and publishes the lies? If you can show us some evidence this information was just fabricated, please post it.
So you call all my customers and me "gullible consumers with control delusions and misplaced sense of self-importance, better known as trolls."
I thought trolls are people who just post useless junk on the internet with no proof, to stir the pot. jongies3 for sure is a troll, but you too?
Lowly Denso filters were used by a dealer servicing the Million Mile Tundra. Amsoil 'studies' are for gullible consumers with control delusions and misplaced sense of self-importance, better known as trolls.
If you write that, can you prove it? Amsoil just makes up lies and publishes the lies? If you can show us some evidence this information was just fabricated, please post it.
So you call all my customers and me "gullible consumers with control delusions and misplaced sense of self-importance, better known as trolls."
I thought trolls are people who just post useless junk on the internet with no proof, to stir the pot. jongies3 for sure is a troll, but you too?
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: Y_K
Lowly Denso filters were used by a dealer servicing the Million Mile Tundra. Amsoil 'studies' are for gullible consumers with control delusions and misplaced sense of self-importance, better known as trolls.
If you write that, can you prove it? Amsoil just makes up lies and publishes the lies? If you can show us some evidence this information was just fabricated, please post it.
So you call all my customers and me "gullible consumers with control delusions and misplaced sense of self-importance, better known as trolls."
I thought trolls are people who just post useless junk on the internet with no proof, to stir the pot. jongies3 for sure is a troll, but you too?
So if something is published, the reader has to prove it is false? I can lift 500 pounds, says me, it's true if you can't prove otherwise? Prove it's not true. The published information stands by itself and has to prove itself. I need to at least make a video showing I can do it with the weight verified. The problem with your graph is 1. it's old and products are changed. 2. it is just a drawing anyone could make with no reference to the test source or more data. 3. Amsoil still hasn't corrected in 6 years Chevrolet oil filters come in second. Doesn't inspire confidence in the test drawing if someone puts the wrong name on what they tested.
Originally Posted By: Y_K
Lowly Denso filters were used by a dealer servicing the Million Mile Tundra. Amsoil 'studies' are for gullible consumers with control delusions and misplaced sense of self-importance, better known as trolls.
If you write that, can you prove it? Amsoil just makes up lies and publishes the lies? If you can show us some evidence this information was just fabricated, please post it.
So you call all my customers and me "gullible consumers with control delusions and misplaced sense of self-importance, better known as trolls."
I thought trolls are people who just post useless junk on the internet with no proof, to stir the pot. jongies3 for sure is a troll, but you too?
So if something is published, the reader has to prove it is false? I can lift 500 pounds, says me, it's true if you can't prove otherwise? Prove it's not true. The published information stands by itself and has to prove itself. I need to at least make a video showing I can do it with the weight verified. The problem with your graph is 1. it's old and products are changed. 2. it is just a drawing anyone could make with no reference to the test source or more data. 3. Amsoil still hasn't corrected in 6 years Chevrolet oil filters come in second. Doesn't inspire confidence in the test drawing if someone puts the wrong name on what they tested.
Again, you don't even need Amsoil's quantitative results. Just compare used Thailand-made Denso oil-filter cartridges and canister cores to other oil filters. It's a day-and-night difference in efficiency and amount of gunk captured. If you don't care about filtration, that's another subject.
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Again, you don't even need Amsoil's quantitative results. Just compare used Thailand-made Denso oil-filter cartridges and canister cores to other oil filters. It's a day-and-night difference in efficiency and amount of gunk captured. If you don't care about filtration, that's another subject.
And yet I'm still going with the OEM filters. How does that happen?
BTW you are only capturing visible "gunk" if there is visible gunk to be captured.
Again, you don't even need Amsoil's quantitative results. Just compare used Thailand-made Denso oil-filter cartridges and canister cores to other oil filters. It's a day-and-night difference in efficiency and amount of gunk captured. If you don't care about filtration, that's another subject.
And yet I'm still going with the OEM filters. How does that happen?
BTW you are only capturing visible "gunk" if there is visible gunk to be captured.
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: CR94
There was nothing visible caught in my OEM Denso cartridge filter after 17,540 miles, except a few tiny black (carbon?) particles. Its condition was still very good.
This could mean that it didn't do much filtering.
That sounds like a very long OCI.
Or could mean the engine wasn't generating much gunk worth filtering out. "Very long" is good, as long at it was structurally intact and not restricting flow significantly more than when new. (How could it restrict flow if it "didn't do much filtering"?)
I ran numerous filters (mostly Purolators, before the tearing epidemic) about that far with zero media-related problems in my Mazda, and it lasted.
Originally Posted By: CR94
There was nothing visible caught in my OEM Denso cartridge filter after 17,540 miles, except a few tiny black (carbon?) particles. Its condition was still very good.
This could mean that it didn't do much filtering.
That sounds like a very long OCI.
Or could mean the engine wasn't generating much gunk worth filtering out. "Very long" is good, as long at it was structurally intact and not restricting flow significantly more than when new. (How could it restrict flow if it "didn't do much filtering"?)
I ran numerous filters (mostly Purolators, before the tearing epidemic) about that far with zero media-related problems in my Mazda, and it lasted.
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: Y_K
Lowly Denso filters were used by a dealer servicing the Million Mile Tundra. Amsoil 'studies' are for gullible consumers with control delusions and misplaced sense of self-importance, better known as trolls.
Opinions without facts are useless.
This said, you don't even need the scientific Amsoil data. Just compare used oil filters coming from the same Toyota engines. Thailand-made Denso comes very clean, indicating low efficiency, whereas most other oil filters are saturated in gunk, showing that they are actually filtering.
Whether you need good oil filtration or not is another subject.
This is all grasping at straws and you just threw away one. If the Amsoil tests are not needed then why all this hullabaloo? Your initial premise was based on that old Amsoil study.
I've ran different vehicles for over 400k on Denso oil filters and like many others here I had no problems. Until you can come up with multiple independent studies that show a fault this is all wild speculation and forum trolling.
Originally Posted By: Y_K
Lowly Denso filters were used by a dealer servicing the Million Mile Tundra. Amsoil 'studies' are for gullible consumers with control delusions and misplaced sense of self-importance, better known as trolls.
Opinions without facts are useless.
This said, you don't even need the scientific Amsoil data. Just compare used oil filters coming from the same Toyota engines. Thailand-made Denso comes very clean, indicating low efficiency, whereas most other oil filters are saturated in gunk, showing that they are actually filtering.
Whether you need good oil filtration or not is another subject.
This is all grasping at straws and you just threw away one. If the Amsoil tests are not needed then why all this hullabaloo? Your initial premise was based on that old Amsoil study.
I've ran different vehicles for over 400k on Denso oil filters and like many others here I had no problems. Until you can come up with multiple independent studies that show a fault this is all wild speculation and forum trolling.
Originally Posted By: PimTac
This is all grasping at straws and you just threw away one. If the Amsoil tests are not needed then why all this hullabaloo? Your initial premise was based on that old Amsoil study.
I did not throw it away at all. On the contrary Amsoil studies are entirely scientific and entirely valid, carried out by an independent laboratory. I showed other, separate, real-life qualitative proof.
Use whatever filter you like. Install a bypass device and run your engine without an oil filter if you like. This should simply oil changes.
This is all grasping at straws and you just threw away one. If the Amsoil tests are not needed then why all this hullabaloo? Your initial premise was based on that old Amsoil study.
I did not throw it away at all. On the contrary Amsoil studies are entirely scientific and entirely valid, carried out by an independent laboratory. I showed other, separate, real-life qualitative proof.
Use whatever filter you like. Install a bypass device and run your engine without an oil filter if you like. This should simply oil changes.
Originally Posted By: CR94
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: CR94
There was nothing visible caught in my OEM Denso cartridge filter after 17,540 miles, except a few tiny black (carbon?) particles. Its condition was still very good.
This could mean that it didn't do much filtering.
That sounds like a very long OCI.
Or could mean the engine wasn't generating much gunk worth filtering out.
Here is how Toyota/Denso Thailand 04152-YZZA6 and Mobil 1 Extended Performance M1C-154 compare in a Prius engine:
https://priuschat.com/threads/my-prius-vs-first-oil-change.129356/
https://priuschat.com/threads/mobil-1-oil-filter-m1c-154-design-change.155209/
So, it's literally day (light brown) and night (dark black).
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: CR94
There was nothing visible caught in my OEM Denso cartridge filter after 17,540 miles, except a few tiny black (carbon?) particles. Its condition was still very good.
This could mean that it didn't do much filtering.
That sounds like a very long OCI.
Or could mean the engine wasn't generating much gunk worth filtering out.
Here is how Toyota/Denso Thailand 04152-YZZA6 and Mobil 1 Extended Performance M1C-154 compare in a Prius engine:
https://priuschat.com/threads/my-prius-vs-first-oil-change.129356/
https://priuschat.com/threads/mobil-1-oil-filter-m1c-154-design-change.155209/
So, it's literally day (light brown) and night (dark black).
Maybe the darker filter is that way because it's catching more dirt/gunk/etc....
Same oil, same engine, same OCI, same orientation and lighting ?
Geez, this is getting beyond trolling
I've never come across a study on the colorimetry of used oil filters, hope that you can link me to some.
(Now for sake of accuracy, I DID sponsor a thesis studying the use of Optical Patch colorimetry on the oxidation state of turbine oils, using a 0.5um filter patch to filter out the varnish, then a non polar solvent to wash the oils from it...specially calibrated flat bed scanner was used to measure the shifting colour from new to varnished engine oil...so YES it can be done).
Geez, this is getting beyond trolling
I've never come across a study on the colorimetry of used oil filters, hope that you can link me to some.
(Now for sake of accuracy, I DID sponsor a thesis studying the use of Optical Patch colorimetry on the oxidation state of turbine oils, using a 0.5um filter patch to filter out the varnish, then a non polar solvent to wash the oils from it...specially calibrated flat bed scanner was used to measure the shifting colour from new to varnished engine oil...so YES it can be done).
Originally Posted By: Shannow
I've never come across a study on the colorimetry of used oil filters, hope that you can link me to some.
I guess you insist on colorimetry before you vacuum your carpet as well.
I've never come across a study on the colorimetry of used oil filters, hope that you can link me to some.
I guess you insist on colorimetry before you vacuum your carpet as well.
Yep this is high level trolling. The pic above shows a used filter and a brand new unused filter. How are you comparing filtration with that example? Yes, I checked out your link.
Posting false data is beyond trolling. Whatever the reason is that you have against Denso filters should be kept to yourself. Maybe a rep from Denso might be interested in this thread plus the other two you have going, all on the same ridiculous claim?
Posting false data is beyond trolling. Whatever the reason is that you have against Denso filters should be kept to yourself. Maybe a rep from Denso might be interested in this thread plus the other two you have going, all on the same ridiculous claim?
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Yep this is high level trolling. The pic above shows a used filter and a brand new unused filter. How are you comparing filtration with that example? Yes, I checked out your link.
Posting false data is beyond trolling. Whatever the reason is that you have against Denso filters should be kept to yourself. Maybe a rep from Denso might be interested in this thread plus the other two you have going, all on the same ridiculous claim?
What are you talking about?
Compare the used filters in that post, not the used one to the new one.
Yep this is high level trolling. The pic above shows a used filter and a brand new unused filter. How are you comparing filtration with that example? Yes, I checked out your link.
Posting false data is beyond trolling. Whatever the reason is that you have against Denso filters should be kept to yourself. Maybe a rep from Denso might be interested in this thread plus the other two you have going, all on the same ridiculous claim?
What are you talking about?
Compare the used filters in that post, not the used one to the new one.
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Compare the used filters in that post, not the used one to the new one.
OK, back to the bit that you ignored...
same engine, same oil, same OCI, same lighting ?
Or you are just using a couple of random pictures to reinforce your already held belief.
Compare the used filters in that post, not the used one to the new one.
OK, back to the bit that you ignored...
same engine, same oil, same OCI, same lighting ?
Or you are just using a couple of random pictures to reinforce your already held belief.
- Status
