Toyota/Lexus Owners

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Compare the used filters in that post, not the used one to the new one.

OK, back to the bit that you ignored...

same engine, same oil, same OCI, same lighting ?

Or you are just using a couple of random pictures to reinforce your already held belief.

Same or similar engines (Prius), same or similar OCI, lighting is nonissue as the difference is day-and-night.

You can Google the Thailand Toyota filters and they all have low-to-moderate amounts of dirt collected and brown-looking appearance.

Yes, as some other posters mentioned, higher-efficiency cartridges that collect a lot more dirt have a tendency to collapse.

About what and why are we arguing here? Few people dispute that Thailand Toyota filters have low efficiency. They are built for fail-safe long service intervals, not high filtration efficiency. Even Denso says that they are made from cellulose media, which tends to have low efficiency.

And don't get started on that you don't need high efficiency as this is not what we are discussing here.

 

[Gokhan]

Not all the Thailand-made Denso oil filters seem to use the same low-efficiency media. For example see this:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3953997/Used_Denso_150-1006_(04_Honda_

The media used in this filter has wider pleats and seems to have captured a lot more dirt than the cartridge-core canisters or bare cartridges.

This is a speculation only: Perhaps the cartridge-core, non-end-capped Toyota Denso oil filters (such as 90915-YZZF1 and 90915-YZZF2 canisters and 04152-YZZA6 cartridge) have low efficiency because their cores have to be built from hard paper to have physical strength without end caps. So, it could well be that the low efficiency is not intended by design but it's a side effect of the design that avoids end caps and must use hard paper because of that.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
And don't get started on that you don't need high efficiency as this is not what we are discussing here.


Never was going there...why would you intimate that was where.

Where I was at was your plucking yet more "facts" to support your belief.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: Shannow
same engine, same oil, same OCI, same lighting ?

Or you are just using a couple of random pictures to reinforce your already held belief.

Same or similar engines (Prius), same or similar OCI, lighting is nonissue as the difference is day-and-night.


You are entitled to your own opinion, but not to MAKE UP your own facts.

Looking at the two threads that you linked...

the lighter use on is a guy with a 2013 prius, that did his own, very first oil change, and posted the change on July 16, 2013...with allegedly 5,000 miles on the factory fill.

the other one was a 2012 Prius and the filter posted (presumably at oil change) on April 1st 2013...and given that the poster was discussing the changes between his old Mobil 1 filter and the new...

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Same or similar engines (Prius), same or similar OCI, lighting is nonissue as the difference is day-and-night.


In order...
Prius - yes
Same or similar OCI - no...we know that the first one is OEM fill (and allegedly changed short). We know that the second one is at least at the end the second filter and OCI on the car.

Why would you even claim what you just stated ?

(except clawing to make people believe your POV has some basis on fact)

How would you manage people in your lab who were as fast and loose with facts and assumptions, and cognitive bias ?

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Yep this is high level trolling. The pic above shows a used filter and a brand new unused filter. How are you comparing filtration with that example? Yes, I checked out your link.

Posting false data is beyond trolling. Whatever the reason is that you have against Denso filters should be kept to yourself. Maybe a rep from Denso might be interested in this thread plus the other two you have going, all on the same ridiculous claim?

What are you talking about?

Compare the used filters in that post, not the used one to the new one.




What I see in the two pics are used filters and a new one. One filteris darker because the oil ran a long time and was black. The other filter was a short run on that oil. That's my guess and I'll bet it's better than yours.

There is way too much conjecture and speculation here, all to support your confirmation bias. You have three threads with this "issue". You are thinking way too much in this.

Mazda' SkyActiv engines require a certain amount of flow through the oil filter to work properly. Mazda recommends their OEM filter which happens to be the same Denso filter now made in Thailand. We don't hear stories of Skyactiv engines blowing up.

Does it make any sense to you that Denso would make good quality filters in their manufacturing plants around the world except Thailand? Companies follow specific specifications and procedures at every plant to ensure the quality is the same no matter the manufacturer location. The idea that Denso's Thailand facility would be different from the rest is absurd.

This thread should be locked up just like the others you have started.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: Shannow
I've never come across a study on the colorimetry of used oil filters, hope that you can link me to some.

I guess you insist on colorimetry before you vacuum your carpet as well.

The real point is that colour tells us so little. As mentioned, OCI, oil formulation, original filter colour, lighting, air filtration efficiency, and so forth can all affect what you see on the same engine, much less trying to compare two different vehicles.

 

[jj51702]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: CR94
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: CR94
There was nothing visible caught in my OEM Denso cartridge filter after 17,540 miles, except a few tiny black (carbon?) particles. Its condition was still very good.

This could mean that it didn't do much filtering.
That sounds like a very long OCI.

Or could mean the engine wasn't generating much gunk worth filtering out.

Here is how Toyota/Denso Thailand 04152-YZZA6 and Mobil 1 Extended Performance M1C-154 compare in a Prius engine:

https://priuschat.com/threads/my-prius-vs-first-oil-change.129356/

https://priuschat.com/threads/mobil-1-oil-filter-m1c-154-design-change.155209/

So, it's literally day (light brown) and night (dark black).


Lol. What did I just read

 

[Gokhan]

Shannow and PimTac:

You contributed nothing to this thread other than criticizing my posts and launching anger and personal attacks.

OP asked a simple question: What do you think of Denso and what are the alternatives for a Toyota? I answered this question having gone through dozens of Denso oil filters in my Toyota cars and to the best of my knowledge and best information out there.

You made zero effort to answer OP's question but 100% effort to attack me and my posts and you even used foul language. It's easier to cherry-pick and attack existing posts rather than bringing your own contribution when you don't have anything to bring but this is ultimately destructive to the thread.

Amsoil's independent-laboratory tests stand as the ultimate answer to OP's question. If you have a problem with that, attack the company or even sue them if they don't take the information down, not me. There is also a consensus out there that most OEM Toyota oil filters are low on the efficiency side and this is not coming from me. If you don't agree, show it otherwise and also disprove the Amsoil data with other independent-laboratory tests.

There is really no place for hostility on these discussion boards. If you don't agree with someone or you think you know better, discuss it in a civilized manner rather than being hostile and argumentative.

 

[Garak]

There is still a lot we don't know. Yes, I trust Amsoil's testing. But, it is a bit dated, and doesn't tell us the results of every filter in the relevant product lines. If you look at Baldwin, for example, they seem to have some very, very efficient lines, and then some that are completely unremarkable.

Toyota has had a long standing relationship with Denso, and I'd feel very confident in using their filters. I'm the first to think that some ultra high efficiency filtration (full flow or bypass) is very cool. But, I've put a lot of miles on a lot of vehicles with less than amazing filtration. And, as you've indicated, you've used a lot of them yourself.

Look at your signature. How many miles did your Corolla go on some very rudimentary filtration? And you've got close to 300,000 miles on the thing, over half of which were likely accrued before the Fram Ultra was even on the drawing board.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Shannow and PimTac:

You contributed nothing to this thread other than criticizing my posts and launching anger and personal attacks.


I asked a clarification on the two filter darkness comparison, and you made stuff up...

 

[PimTac]

Not personal but trying to set things straight. Your whole premise that these Toyota filters are of low efficiency is something you came up with. Millions and millions of Toyotas run each and every day on these so called inefficient oil filters with no problems at all. The number of miles accumulated on Toyota engines has to be astronomical, yet no evidence that oil filtration was lacking and cause problems. This is not only Toyota but most of the Japanese manufacturers as most of them use Denso filters for their OEM globally in many markets.

Finally, why do you worry about this and keep harping on it as to drive your point home? You have done this with your TGMO threads that got locked down for the same reason this thread should be shut down. If

This forum's reputation is based on accurate and helpful information and answers to members questions. If someone goes outside of those boundaries they should be questioned. I'm quite new here but I have lurked for some time. During that time I have determined who the posters that have good knowledge are. Shannow is one of those.

This is all the makings of a mountain out of a molehill.

 

[Shannow]

Gokhan,
given that diesels turn the oil to black paint, before you even turn the key, and your previous statements about
* diesels need high efficiency filters because of the soot; and
* filter colour tells you about filtering efficiency.

I'd appreciate commentary on this one...


We're getting my wife a diesel Captiva in the near future, so I was researching servicing, not looking for counter arguments.

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: PimTac
Millions and millions of Toyotas run each and every day on these so called inefficient oil filters with no problems at all. The number of miles accumulated on Toyota engines has to be astronomical, yet no evidence that oil filtration was lacking and cause problems.


I'd put that another way.

There is absolutely no way that anecdotal, non-quantified impressions of Toyota reliability, even though probably well founded, tell us anything AT ALL, EITHER WAY about the efficiency of their oil filtration.

Perhaps the ultimate anecdotal, non-quantified reliability legend, probably also well founded, would be the air-cooled Volkswagen Beetle, and its oil filtration was certainly lacking, because it didn't have any.

 

[bbhero]

How many of those VW beetles ever saw 200k miles, 300k miles or more ??? Yeah. Hardly any. How many Toyota Camrys, Avalons, or Corollas been well over 200k miles plus??? Yeah, light yrs more than your VW beetles. There's your answer to that.

 

[goodtimes]

Time to use a sub micron bypass filter if the goal is clean oil in the crankcase at drain time. IMHO the multi pass test tells little about what will be in the crankcase at drain time. A multi pass teat failure filter may also have fine and slow filtering qualities that put it ahead of the star rated filter at drain time. Like a bypass filter. I don't believe the Amsoil graph at all, either. Used to believe it a little, not now.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted By: bbhero
How many of those VW beetles ever saw 200k miles, 300k miles or more ??? Yeah. Hardly any. How many Toyota Camrys, Avalons, or Corollas been well over 200k miles plus??? Yeah, light yrs more than your VW beetles. There's your answer to that.



Yep, agree with bbhero. My memories of VW's include lots of time spent in auto garages or in driveways with the motor being worked on. At least that was easy to do.

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: bbhero
How many of those VW beetles ever saw 200k miles, 300k miles or more ??? Yeah. Hardly any. How many Toyota Camrys, Avalons, or Corollas been well over 200k miles plus??? Yeah, light yrs more than your VW beetles. There's your answer to that.


Its an answer, but it doesn't mean anything,

It doesn't mean anything because (a) like the post I was responding to, its guaranteed fact-free, enriched with added opinion and attitude, and (b) if it was entirely true, which it might be, it still tells us absolutely bugger-all about filtration efficiency, which was supposed to be, like, the point.

 

[PimTac]

It all depends on what the meaning of is is.

 

[gaijinnv]

Originally Posted By: Speak2Mountain
Who use OEM Toyota-Denso Thailand filters, are you happy?

My Lexus uses 04152-YZZA3 and there's not alot of good alternatives, at least of what I could find.


For me it's pretty simple. My Toyota dealership sells two filters for my 2013 Land Cruiser - the Made in Thailand 04152-YZZA4 and the Made in USA TRD PTR43-00081:

I believe that both will do the job, but the TRD filter will do it better.

The construction of the TRD filter is much stronger than the YZZA4:

The TRD has a metal screen core:

But the YZZA4 relies on the strength of the pleated filter for support:

The TRD filter is also 100% synthetic where the YZZA4 is cellulose.

Using the TRD filter makes me feel better, but I'm sure I wouldn't find myself stranded on the side of the road if I used the factory filter. It's up to you which you want to run.

HTH

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted By: Speak2Mountain
Who use OEM Toyota-Denso Thailand filters, are you happy?

My Lexus uses 04152-YZZA3 and there's not alot of good alternatives, at least of what I could find.


Unhappy with the OEM stuff - no.

I'm "happier" when I run Fram Ultras or Microgreens in my Rx400H. (3MZ-Fe)



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