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Toyota fined another 17.35 million
- Thread starter edhackett
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Yeah, that will help to make up for the $5B loss on GM.
Not.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Glad to hear it. It appears they aren't learning, maybe a $25,000,000 fine might be a better teacher.
Not.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Glad to hear it. It appears they aren't learning, maybe a $25,000,000 fine might be a better teacher.
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Just how slow was Toyota?
Considering that the problem is nothing more than a floor mat that MIGHT be in the wrong place.....
You have to use commonsense here...it is getting ridiculous when floor mats can occasionally out of position POSSIBLY causing the accelerator to depressed become the thing of fine after fine after fine.
No product is EVER going to be PERFECTLY safe no matter how much the manufacturers try. The more it costs them to IDIOT PROOF the vehicles the more it is going to cost us all, eventually we won't be able to afford any vehicles!
It is OUR responsibility as owner operators to know how to drive and properly operate a vehivle, and ALSO just as much our responsibility to know how to react in emergency situations.
First you are the owner should be checking things that might obstruct controls. And knowing how to react when something goes wrong. Like knowing the SIMPLE fact that shifting into neutral and steering the car to a safe place for example.
It's one thing if a cars fuel system is defectively designed and will cause the vehicle to unexpectedly burst into flame, it is another thing if a mat shifts into a position where the pedal MIGHT get pushed on.
No commonsense in the USA today!
A-MEN!!! BROTHA!!!
Just how slow was Toyota?
Considering that the problem is nothing more than a floor mat that MIGHT be in the wrong place.....
You have to use commonsense here...it is getting ridiculous when floor mats can occasionally out of position POSSIBLY causing the accelerator to depressed become the thing of fine after fine after fine.
No product is EVER going to be PERFECTLY safe no matter how much the manufacturers try. The more it costs them to IDIOT PROOF the vehicles the more it is going to cost us all, eventually we won't be able to afford any vehicles!
It is OUR responsibility as owner operators to know how to drive and properly operate a vehivle, and ALSO just as much our responsibility to know how to react in emergency situations.
First you are the owner should be checking things that might obstruct controls. And knowing how to react when something goes wrong. Like knowing the SIMPLE fact that shifting into neutral and steering the car to a safe place for example.
It's one thing if a cars fuel system is defectively designed and will cause the vehicle to unexpectedly burst into flame, it is another thing if a mat shifts into a position where the pedal MIGHT get pushed on.
No commonsense in the USA today!
A-MEN!!! BROTHA!!!
Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: Joe1
The government is competing with Toyota as they own massive amounts of stock in GM that was purchased with your tax dollars. The reliability ratings in consumer reports indicates the government owned entity cannot compete from a reliability perspective with Toyota. Could this be a case of if wee can't beat them in the marketplace, fine them?
But I thought that Consumer's Reports ratings were controlled by the liberal media with their own agenda? Sorry, I'm having a difficult time keeping all of the conspiracies straight.
Better get yourself a better tuned tin foil hat!
Originally Posted By: Joe1
The government is competing with Toyota as they own massive amounts of stock in GM that was purchased with your tax dollars. The reliability ratings in consumer reports indicates the government owned entity cannot compete from a reliability perspective with Toyota. Could this be a case of if wee can't beat them in the marketplace, fine them?
But I thought that Consumer's Reports ratings were controlled by the liberal media with their own agenda? Sorry, I'm having a difficult time keeping all of the conspiracies straight.
Better get yourself a better tuned tin foil hat!
It was a drive-by fruiting sir
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
I do not know about previous years but the 2013 Honda Accord has floor mats with eye holes and hooks in the floor that go through the eye holes so the mat can not slide around.
My 1996 Contour has that feature.
Whimsey
I do not know about previous years but the 2013 Honda Accord has floor mats with eye holes and hooks in the floor that go through the eye holes so the mat can not slide around.
My 1996 Contour has that feature.
Whimsey
Originally Posted By: Joe1
The government is competing with Toyota as they own massive amounts of stock in GM that was purchased with your tax dollars. The reliability ratings in consumer reports indicates the government owned entity cannot compete from a reliability perspective with Toyota. Could this be a case of if wee can't beat them in the marketplace, fine them?
EXACTLY....which is why I have 3 Toyotas sitting where the GM cars once sat.
The government is competing with Toyota as they own massive amounts of stock in GM that was purchased with your tax dollars. The reliability ratings in consumer reports indicates the government owned entity cannot compete from a reliability perspective with Toyota. Could this be a case of if wee can't beat them in the marketplace, fine them?
EXACTLY....which is why I have 3 Toyotas sitting where the GM cars once sat.
Originally Posted By: Tegger
To my knowledge, Toyota floor mats in recent years have not just one, but TWO hooks to make sure they won't get bunched up under the gas pedal.
All of my 2008 models have 2 hooks.
To my knowledge, Toyota floor mats in recent years have not just one, but TWO hooks to make sure they won't get bunched up under the gas pedal.
All of my 2008 models have 2 hooks.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Glad to hear it. It appears they aren't learning, maybe a $25,000,000 fine might be a better teacher.
Still won't make GM turn a profit. Gm is incapable of making a profit so the government attacks Toyota.
Glad to hear it. It appears they aren't learning, maybe a $25,000,000 fine might be a better teacher.
Still won't make GM turn a profit. Gm is incapable of making a profit so the government attacks Toyota.
Originally Posted By: Joe1
The government is competing with Toyota as they own massive amounts of stock in GM that was purchased with your tax dollars. The reliability ratings in consumer reports indicates the government owned entity cannot compete from a reliability perspective with Toyota. Could this be a case of if wee can't beat them in the marketplace, fine them?
Guess what...
Ford BMW and Toyota took government money
Toyota also hit up the Japanese government for $2billion in 2009.
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
I do not know about previous years but the 2013 Honda Accord has floor mats with eye holes and hooks in the floor that go through the eye holes so the mat can not slide around.
And nobody uses them
When I finish an install, I always shake out the mat to eliminate all the bits of insulation and tie-wrap ends and to ensure that all my tools came out with me. I almost never have to unhook the mats from the hooks or snaps.
I installed a Prius yesterday that the mat was folded over and bunched under the pedals. At least it was under the pedals rather than on top of them but still, you can't fix stupid.
The government is competing with Toyota as they own massive amounts of stock in GM that was purchased with your tax dollars. The reliability ratings in consumer reports indicates the government owned entity cannot compete from a reliability perspective with Toyota. Could this be a case of if wee can't beat them in the marketplace, fine them?
Guess what...
Ford BMW and Toyota took government money
Toyota also hit up the Japanese government for $2billion in 2009.
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
I do not know about previous years but the 2013 Honda Accord has floor mats with eye holes and hooks in the floor that go through the eye holes so the mat can not slide around.
And nobody uses them
When I finish an install, I always shake out the mat to eliminate all the bits of insulation and tie-wrap ends and to ensure that all my tools came out with me. I almost never have to unhook the mats from the hooks or snaps.
I installed a Prius yesterday that the mat was folded over and bunched under the pedals. At least it was under the pedals rather than on top of them but still, you can't fix stupid.
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: Joe1
The government is competing with Toyota as they own massive amounts of stock in GM that was purchased with your tax dollars. The reliability ratings in consumer reports indicates the government owned entity cannot compete from a reliability perspective with Toyota. Could this be a case of if wee can't beat them in the marketplace, fine them?
Guess what...
Ford BMW and Toyota took government money
Toyota also hit up the Japanese government for $2billion in 2009.
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
I do not know about previous years but the 2013 Honda Accord has floor mats with eye holes and hooks in the floor that go through the eye holes so the mat can not slide around.
And nobody uses them
When I finish an install, I always shake out the mat to eliminate all the bits of insulation and tie-wrap ends and to ensure that all my tools came out with me. I almost never have to unhook the mats from the hooks or snaps.
I installed a Prius yesterday that the mat was folded over and bunched under the pedals. At least it was under the pedals rather than on top of them but still, you can't fix stupid.
I guess you simply don't get the fact that the issue is not that any company took or borrowed money from the government. The fact is that GM is the only one who the taxpayers LOST money on. You really need to read up on the facts before you embarrass yourself again. Just look at Toyota's stock price history since 1983 and then compare GM.
Originally Posted By: Joe1
The government is competing with Toyota as they own massive amounts of stock in GM that was purchased with your tax dollars. The reliability ratings in consumer reports indicates the government owned entity cannot compete from a reliability perspective with Toyota. Could this be a case of if wee can't beat them in the marketplace, fine them?
Guess what...
Ford BMW and Toyota took government money
Toyota also hit up the Japanese government for $2billion in 2009.
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
I do not know about previous years but the 2013 Honda Accord has floor mats with eye holes and hooks in the floor that go through the eye holes so the mat can not slide around.
And nobody uses them
When I finish an install, I always shake out the mat to eliminate all the bits of insulation and tie-wrap ends and to ensure that all my tools came out with me. I almost never have to unhook the mats from the hooks or snaps.
I installed a Prius yesterday that the mat was folded over and bunched under the pedals. At least it was under the pedals rather than on top of them but still, you can't fix stupid.
I guess you simply don't get the fact that the issue is not that any company took or borrowed money from the government. The fact is that GM is the only one who the taxpayers LOST money on. You really need to read up on the facts before you embarrass yourself again. Just look at Toyota's stock price history since 1983 and then compare GM.
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I'm not embarrassed.
GM has actually done a fair job at getting it's house in order. But Europe is still a mess. Ford reports losing money in Europe. GM is certainly losing there. And even if GM gets their stock price to where it needs to be, when the government dumps that stock, it will devalue GM stock again.
I'm pretty far from a GM fan or apologist. But they are in better order than they have been in a long time.
My point was that once GM and Chrysler execs got off their GulfStreams with tin cup in hand to beg, virtually everybody got in on the cash grab.
GM has actually done a fair job at getting it's house in order. But Europe is still a mess. Ford reports losing money in Europe. GM is certainly losing there. And even if GM gets their stock price to where it needs to be, when the government dumps that stock, it will devalue GM stock again.
I'm pretty far from a GM fan or apologist. But they are in better order than they have been in a long time.
My point was that once GM and Chrysler execs got off their GulfStreams with tin cup in hand to beg, virtually everybody got in on the cash grab.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
I'm not embarrassed.
GM has actually done a fair job at getting it's house in order. But Europe is still a mess. Ford reports losing money in Europe. GM is certainly losing there. And even if GM gets their stock price to where it needs to be, when the government dumps that stock, it will devalue GM stock again.
I'm pretty far from a GM fan or apologist. But they are in better order than they have been in a long time.
My point was that once GM and Chrysler execs got off their GulfStreams with tin cup in hand to beg, virtually everybody got in on the cash grab.
I think a distinction needs to be made between the two sides of what is being argued here. The issue isn't with companies taking government money as a loan, grant, bursary, "incentive"....etc. ALL of the automakers (and many other companies) did that to some degree. The article you linked spoke specifically to the finance industry and lending arms. It also makes mention that it has ALL been paid back.
Initially, that's where GM and Chrysler went: borrowing government money. And had it ended there, this discussion likely wouldn't be taking place.
Where things get dicey is when we start discussing what happened AFTER they took government money. The bankruptcy sham, the shares being exchanged....etc All of a sudden we aren't talking about a loan, but government ownership of a large corporation with their investment being in the form of stocks, stocks it appears we will be losing half of our money on as the investors.
On top of that, GM itself, its proponents as well as the Government were tooting their own horn saying how GM had "paid back" what they owed. And while on paper, when spoken directly about what was LENT to GM, this is technically correct. But it is an intentional diversion to draw attention away from the Elephant in the room, which was the much larger chunk of money that was turned into stock options and that the North American taxpayers are now set to lose billions on.
Have you not noticed that GM is the one that gets all the attention about this? Don't you find it odd that Chrysler is not focused on in the same way? This is because although Chrysler went bankrupt, their situation post bankruptcy, with FIAT purchasing them and paying off what they owed put them in the free in clear in terms of criticism from the American public. Whereas with GM, the truth gets distorted, taxpayers are told they've been "paid back", whilst the government still owns a massive interest in the company and seemingly constantly we get new stories coming out about how we are going to be screwed on our "investment" in GM, the most recent being the stock buy-back at half of what we'd need them to be sold at to recoup our investment. It is a never-ending reminder of GM's folly and, at least in my opinion, why we continue to see the constant criticism of their involvement in the bail-out, even though Chrysler was right there with them.
I'm not embarrassed.
GM has actually done a fair job at getting it's house in order. But Europe is still a mess. Ford reports losing money in Europe. GM is certainly losing there. And even if GM gets their stock price to where it needs to be, when the government dumps that stock, it will devalue GM stock again.
I'm pretty far from a GM fan or apologist. But they are in better order than they have been in a long time.
My point was that once GM and Chrysler execs got off their GulfStreams with tin cup in hand to beg, virtually everybody got in on the cash grab.
I think a distinction needs to be made between the two sides of what is being argued here. The issue isn't with companies taking government money as a loan, grant, bursary, "incentive"....etc. ALL of the automakers (and many other companies) did that to some degree. The article you linked spoke specifically to the finance industry and lending arms. It also makes mention that it has ALL been paid back.
Initially, that's where GM and Chrysler went: borrowing government money. And had it ended there, this discussion likely wouldn't be taking place.
Where things get dicey is when we start discussing what happened AFTER they took government money. The bankruptcy sham, the shares being exchanged....etc All of a sudden we aren't talking about a loan, but government ownership of a large corporation with their investment being in the form of stocks, stocks it appears we will be losing half of our money on as the investors.
On top of that, GM itself, its proponents as well as the Government were tooting their own horn saying how GM had "paid back" what they owed. And while on paper, when spoken directly about what was LENT to GM, this is technically correct. But it is an intentional diversion to draw attention away from the Elephant in the room, which was the much larger chunk of money that was turned into stock options and that the North American taxpayers are now set to lose billions on.
Have you not noticed that GM is the one that gets all the attention about this? Don't you find it odd that Chrysler is not focused on in the same way? This is because although Chrysler went bankrupt, their situation post bankruptcy, with FIAT purchasing them and paying off what they owed put them in the free in clear in terms of criticism from the American public. Whereas with GM, the truth gets distorted, taxpayers are told they've been "paid back", whilst the government still owns a massive interest in the company and seemingly constantly we get new stories coming out about how we are going to be screwed on our "investment" in GM, the most recent being the stock buy-back at half of what we'd need them to be sold at to recoup our investment. It is a never-ending reminder of GM's folly and, at least in my opinion, why we continue to see the constant criticism of their involvement in the bail-out, even though Chrysler was right there with them.
One question no one can answer is what would the cost to us be if GM had gone thru bankruptcy? What if like Chrysler, GM was bought by a foreign company? What if China or the Middle east bought them? What if they were bought, and each individual brand was sold. How many jobs could have been lost? Am I the only one that thinks it's a good idea to keep GM a US based company?
Originally Posted By: whip
One question no one can answer is what would the cost to us be if GM had gone thru bankruptcy?
Unless I'm mistaken, GM did go through bankruptcy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Chapter_11_reorganization
One question no one can answer is what would the cost to us be if GM had gone thru bankruptcy?
Unless I'm mistaken, GM did go through bankruptcy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Chapter_11_reorganization
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: whip
One question no one can answer is what would the cost to us be if GM had gone thru bankruptcy?
Unless I'm mistaken, GM did go through bankruptcy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Chapter_11_reorganization
Exactly, but it was an illegal bankruptcy and the GM bondholders share was given to the UAW by Obama. (nice illegal payoff). Most people do not understand how many companies go through Chapter 11 and survive. They simply lack the basic understanding that in fact GM did go bankrupt and will probably go bankrupt again.
Originally Posted By: whip
One question no one can answer is what would the cost to us be if GM had gone thru bankruptcy?
Unless I'm mistaken, GM did go through bankruptcy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Chapter_11_reorganization
Exactly, but it was an illegal bankruptcy and the GM bondholders share was given to the UAW by Obama. (nice illegal payoff). Most people do not understand how many companies go through Chapter 11 and survive. They simply lack the basic understanding that in fact GM did go bankrupt and will probably go bankrupt again.
Originally Posted By: whip
One question no one can answer is what would the cost to us be if GM had gone thru bankruptcy? What if like Chrysler, GM was bought by a foreign company? What if China or the Middle east bought them? What if they were bought, and each individual brand was sold. How many jobs could have been lost? Am I the only one that thinks it's a good idea to keep GM a US based company?
"The Middle East"? Just exactly who is that?
One question no one can answer is what would the cost to us be if GM had gone thru bankruptcy? What if like Chrysler, GM was bought by a foreign company? What if China or the Middle east bought them? What if they were bought, and each individual brand was sold. How many jobs could have been lost? Am I the only one that thinks it's a good idea to keep GM a US based company?
"The Middle East"? Just exactly who is that?
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: Joe1
The government is competing with Toyota as they own massive amounts of stock in GM that was purchased with your tax dollars. The reliability ratings in consumer reports indicates the government owned entity cannot compete from a reliability perspective with Toyota. Could this be a case of if wee can't beat them in the marketplace, fine them?
Guess what...
Ford BMW and Toyota took government money
Toyota also hit up the Japanese government for $2billion in 2009.
^^^THANK YOU!!! (And that was despite the Nippon Giant supposedly having enough capital/equity to be 'in the black for the next 100 years even if ALL of them are somehow red'.
)
Originally Posted By: Joe1
The government is competing with Toyota as they own massive amounts of stock in GM that was purchased with your tax dollars. The reliability ratings in consumer reports indicates the government owned entity cannot compete from a reliability perspective with Toyota. Could this be a case of if wee can't beat them in the marketplace, fine them?
Guess what...
Ford BMW and Toyota took government money
Toyota also hit up the Japanese government for $2billion in 2009.
^^^THANK YOU!!! (And that was despite the Nippon Giant supposedly having enough capital/equity to be 'in the black for the next 100 years even if ALL of them are somehow red'.
Originally Posted By: Doog
Originally Posted By: whip
One question no one can answer is what would the cost to us be if GM had gone thru bankruptcy? What if like Chrysler, GM was bought by a foreign company? What if China or the Middle east bought them? What if they were bought, and each individual brand was sold. How many jobs could have been lost? Am I the only one that thinks it's a good idea to keep GM a US based company?
"The Middle East"? Just exactly who is that?
Wealthy oil tycoons. Sheiks. You know, guys with a ton of money.
Originally Posted By: whip
One question no one can answer is what would the cost to us be if GM had gone thru bankruptcy? What if like Chrysler, GM was bought by a foreign company? What if China or the Middle east bought them? What if they were bought, and each individual brand was sold. How many jobs could have been lost? Am I the only one that thinks it's a good idea to keep GM a US based company?
"The Middle East"? Just exactly who is that?
Wealthy oil tycoons. Sheiks. You know, guys with a ton of money.
Originally Posted By: Tegger
To my knowledge, Toyota floor mats in recent years have not just one, but TWO hooks to make sure they won't get bunched up under the gas pedal.
Before the "stuck gas pedal" thing that prompted Ray LaHood to rashly advise Toyota owners to park their cars because they were "unsafe", the NHTSA did not bother to respond to complaints until the total number of complaints went over 1,000.
There is nothing wrong with Toyota mats and their well engineered hooks. The rumor was something was wrong with the software. Turned out it was not. Who knew it was just user error?
To my knowledge, Toyota floor mats in recent years have not just one, but TWO hooks to make sure they won't get bunched up under the gas pedal.
Before the "stuck gas pedal" thing that prompted Ray LaHood to rashly advise Toyota owners to park their cars because they were "unsafe", the NHTSA did not bother to respond to complaints until the total number of complaints went over 1,000.
There is nothing wrong with Toyota mats and their well engineered hooks. The rumor was something was wrong with the software. Turned out it was not. Who knew it was just user error?
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