Toyota brake clank/clack noise

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edwardh1

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Jan 17, 2003
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I have an 04 toyota highlander, 93000 miles, had brakes done 8000 miles ago using oem parts- pads rotors.. last few weeks I get a drivers side front brake area noise. I can reproduce it 100% by driving at 35 MPH and driving over the rectangular lane divider dots (botts?) that are on the road. Thats a quick hard impact. no noise when over smooth dips in the road. makes a clack/rattle noise when the tire hits the dot. lug nuts are tight - steering seems tight. never wrecked, It does it when accelerating and when coasting. It does NOT do it when you put your foot slightly on the brake as you hit the dot- which makes me think its brake related. I jacked up the car under the door and the tire seems tight (ball joints ok?) when you push and pull on top or bottom of the tire. sway bar bushing and sway bar links "look" ok.
Caliper pins worn? how to check? something wrong with brake hardware?
Ideas? the 2 14 mm caliper pin bolts are tight and the 2 17 mm caliper bracket bolts are tight.
 
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Do you get the same noise on the first braking event after switching between forward and reverse gears?
 
Originally Posted By: Doog
Did you install new hardware clips and lube the back of the pads?


Lubing the back of the pads is not necessary per Toyota, however, how is the condition of the hardware? If the hardware was replaced with one of those aftermarket Chinese hardware kits, it may be the source of your problem.
 
Originally Posted By: edwardh1
no only when hitting a bump, but i will check tomorrow - if yes what would that be?
Thanks


That would be pad rattle. It's completely harmless and comes from pads fitting loosely in the hardware.
 
Originally Posted By: yonyon
Originally Posted By: edwardh1
no only when hitting a bump, but i will check tomorrow - if yes what would that be?
Thanks


That would be pad rattle. It's completely harmless and comes from pads fitting loosely in the hardware.


Not nitpicking, but it's probably from the pads fitting loosly in the carrier. I'm having the same problem with my A6 and have really noticed it now that it's warm enought to have the windows open. It does make the clicking sound when I go from R to D after backing out of the garage each morning.

OP - I have aftermarket pads, so they may never fit exactly right but for your OEM pads to do this is strange. You should return them and get ones that fit correctly.
 
I checked it today.
test 1- backed out , firm stop while rolling backward, shift into drive, up to 5 mph - apply brakes no noise

test 2- same as above cept up to 30 mph, brake, no noise.

dont think they changed the bottom and top "holder piece" could that be it?
 
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They do "wear out" in a way eventually, but if you're not getting a noise after a change of direction that suggests it isn't pad rattle.

There are plenty of other things that can make noises when you ride over a small bump such as a loose bolt or a worn lower ball joint or a failing strut mount. It might be helpful if you could somehow provide an audio recording of the noise. Perhaps one of us has heard the noise before. Can you reproduce the noise by jacking the wheel off the ground and kicking the tire?
 
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Lubing the back of the pads is not necessary per Toyota,


But it is standard on every Doog brake job. Always quiet when you lube the pads, pins and pinch points.
 
It is pad rattle, and it can present with varying symptoms.

For example, our Acura's front pads will click/clunk with a change in direction (backing out of a parking spot for instance). But there is no rattle on small sharp impacts.

Our CR-V's front pads are quiet with changes in direction, but they sometimes DO rattle over small sharp impacts.

For the Honda, what I've found works is applying Honda's brake assembly paste to the backing plates on the brake pads, and lubing the shim slides in the caliper holders very well. That keeps the noise away for a year or so. The right side on the Honda is starting to rattle again over rumble strips, though it's very slight. It still has original pads on it (73,000 miles), so I will simply wait until a pad change to correct it again.
 
how do you rule put caliper pin wear? or would that not cause a clack?
? take off tire? try to move the caliper? should the caliper have ANY movement, even small - felt but not seen or heard?
 
The caliper should have movement, but not much. It does, afterall, slide on the pins. You should be able to wiggle it, but only slightly. Pad rattle is hard to find by close inspection as well.

I had the same deal as you on my CR-V shortly after I bought it. The dealer replaced the stabilizer bar bushings and end links, but the noise persisted. On the second trip to the dealer, I noted that the noise goes away with application of the brake, so maybe it's something in the front brakes. They replaced the two front struts. And the noise persisted. So I spent $10 on a front brake hardware kit and spent an hour of my time re-doing the front brake hardware, and it's been fine until now. Even now, just one side has started to rattle again.

I'd say that it'd be hard to rule out pin wear, but I think that's also extremely unlikely. If there's so much friction to wear the pin, I think you'd have symptoms of sticking calipers first.
 
Thanks!!
More diagnostics.
Thinking its pins or the pad holder piece.

test one:
Jack up car under driver door, wheel off ground .

Get sledge hammer and "bang" on-
- Bang on tire side walls 4 places gently- no noise
- bang on the front driver tire tread where it faces front at about 8 o clock- no noise
- bang on front tire tread kinda under the driver fender splash shield maybe 4 oclock- you get the noise every lick - noise seems to be from behind the tire/rim, not from the lower control arm bushing and not from up around the top strut mount area.
-----
Test two
- take tire/rim off, screw lug nuts back on hand tight plus some to hold rotor
- sit with your chest facing the lug nuts, reach out with left hand and grab the caliper, fingers on the engine side, palm on the caliper side that faces forward, thumb hooked over toward the lug nuts, pull the caliper toward your chest, take your hand off, then with your palm hit the caliper area facing your chest - you get the clang/clack noise as the caliper moves away from you. Is that normal?.
- also when gripping the caliper as above if you try to "peel" the caliper off by hooking it with your thumb the closest side of the caliper to you moves some- should the caliper move like that?
I made a video but may not be able to post it
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd

For the Honda, what I've found works is applying Honda's brake assembly paste to the backing plates on the brake pads, and lubing the shim slides in the caliper holders very well.


Switch to the Permatex synthetic Brake lube (green). I have been getting longer life than the OE brand.
 
Originally Posted By: Doog
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Lubing the back of the pads is not necessary per Toyota,


But it is standard on every Doog brake job. Always quiet when you lube the pads, pins and pinch points.


I believe Toyota [as does Honda on their OE pads] instruct to apply grease between the pad's backing plate and the shims for applications that have multi-layer 'clip-on' shims, however, agreeing with Critic, it is not necessary to put grease on the back of the shims in between the shims and any caliper piston/ear contact points. Just thinking about this from a mechanical point of view, if the grease/noise suppressant substance in-between the shim and pad's backing plate isn't reducing the vibration then I wouldn't think additional grease on the back of the shims would help except to necessarily cover up the root cause of failed grease/noise suppressant between the backing plate and shim. Some pads have bonded [nitrile coated] shims, which do not necessarily require grease on the back of the shims. I don't use grease on bonded shims and have had nary a noise except when there is excessive dust buildup or after a car-wash.

To the OP, I'm inclined to think it's worn brake pad hardware otherwise known as abutment clips. I'm not sure if the OE Toyota hardware is nitrile coated, and I don't recall the OE Toyota pads come with new abutment hardware except perhaps shims, however, I know that Carlson and Raybestos [and some 'BrakeBest' O'Reiily's] have hardware kits that are nitrile coated to help suppress noise. I use new hardware [abutment clips, pin boots and pin busshings if any] each time when servicing the brakes, and try to use the nitrile coated if an application is available. I had pad clanking with my Mazda6 [which the dealer called normal] that cleared up when I installed Bendix CT-3 pads which came with new abutment clips, not coated, however I believe that a huge contributor to pad clanking and brake noise in general is due to worn and ill-fitting hardware. Last time I installed OE Toyota pads was on the many-years ago Previa, they were Sumitomo/Advics and the pad backing plate was stamped and painted very well so I don't think it's a poorly stamped backing plate but it can happen.
 
Originally Posted By: edwardh1
Thanks!!
More diagnostics.
Thinking its pins or the pad holder piece.

If it's the pins, it just might be a missing bushing. A lot of the Toyota's will have one pin with a rubber bushing on it and one without. Contamination from unsuitable grease causes it to swell with predictable results so many people (myself included) will discard a swollen bushing rather than take the time to get a new one. That could be part of your noise.

Originally Posted By: edwardh1

test one:
Jack up car under driver door, wheel off ground .

Get sledge hammer and "bang" on-
- Bang on tire side walls 4 places gently- no noise
- bang on the front driver tire tread where it faces front at about 8 o clock- no noise
- bang on front tire tread kinda under the driver fender splash shield maybe 4 oclock- you get the noise every lick - noise seems to be from behind the tire/rim, not from the lower control arm bushing and not from up around the top strut mount area.

Now if you could convince someone else to to the hammering maybe you could get in close and listen to where the noise comes from. That or maybe you could find a spot where your hand (or a pokey stick™) stops the noise.

Originally Posted By: edwardh1

-----
Test two

That sounds normal to me.
 
Originally Posted By: yonyon
Originally Posted By: edwardh1
Thanks!!
More diagnostics.
Thinking its pins or the pad holder piece.

If it's the pins, it just might be a missing bushing. A lot of the Toyota's will have one pin with a rubber bushing on it and one without. Contamination from unsuitable grease causes it to swell with predictable results so many people (myself included) will discard a swollen bushing rather than take the time to get a new one. That could be part of your noise.

Originally Posted By: edwardh1

test one:
Jack up car under driver door, wheel off ground .

Get sledge hammer and "bang" on-
- Bang on tire side walls 4 places gently- no noise
- bang on the front driver tire tread where it faces front at about 8 o clock- no noise
- bang on front tire tread kinda under the driver fender splash shield maybe 4 oclock- you get the noise every lick - noise seems to be from behind the tire/rim, not from the lower control arm bushing and not from up around the top strut mount area.

Now if you could convince someone else to to the hammering maybe you could get in close and listen to where the noise comes from. That or maybe you could find a spot where your hand (or a pokey stick™) stops the noise.

Originally Posted By: edwardh1

-----
Test two

That sounds normal to me.

------

is the pokey stick (TM) part of that new app for the obd II scanner?
 
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