2009 Toyota Matrix ... Clunk Pulling Out of Driveway

[PeterZarolli]

OK big update on the thread, just want to say thank you so much to anyone who has given ideas.

So on Friday, it was at the shop for a diag and they came back to me with a ball joint with play, making the pop and spring bind, making the metal noise. So while the new endlinks that lasted two weeks had torn rubber and did need replacing Im guessing my issue for the clunk has always been with the ball joint. Used some cheap but effective chassis ears and confirmed the ball joint was making noise. So I chalk it up to bad luck on the endlinks.

Spring bind is another story however, after taking it down my driveway, which is insanely steep and I fear the cause of a lot of my suspension problems, the metal noise returned. I looked in the wheel well and noticed that the clip that attached to the strut and hold the brake cable in place was bent and hitting a body panel or some other bolt, bent it back to place, got the brake line in the clip and it is all good.

Now, I suspect my 'alignment' issues were either from this ball joint, or since it mainly happened while braking, I assume the brake line that was just hanging there got twisted / snagged and prevented braking on my passenger side causing me to nearly veer into the opposite lane. The brake line is in good shape still.

So I believe I have my answer, a bad ball joint, which in fairness when I got done last year I was tight on cash and kinda cheaped out on the economy option, additionally I put a lot of KMs on those ball joints, maybe 40k km? So it makes sense they would go.

Everything else on the car seems great! Albeit when I was testing pulling in and out of the driveway I noticed the rear suspension would also make a little click when one end went over the curb before the other. Honestly this just sounds like my old rear suspension compressing and is not that much of a concern as it doesn't happen on any other large or otherwise bumps beside my driveway going forward, I also used the chassis ears on the rear, on the end link and upper and lower control arm (basically that's all the components really back there) and when the noise happened it did not really register on the ears. I assume its either the old struts or some exhaust etc bouncing around or just some inner body panels or something old. I only mention it here incase others have had this issue.

Also today I was looking at getting some rubber driveway curb ramps so hopefully avoid any stress on my vehicle in the future!
Thanks again!

And if the clunk persists I will get the shop to do the sway bushings like @Kurtatron suggested! hopefully this is the end to this saga as I had the chassis ears on the endlink, albeit not the sway bar but they are attached lol, regardless when I got the noise on the ears on the ball joints the links didn't light up at all. So hopefully I don't have to replace them! Thanks for the advice!

 

[PeterZarolli]

Intermediate shaft clunking when telescoping?

Or does the matrix/vibe not suffer that defect that I swear every Camry has

I havn't experienced that on the Matrix so much just be a camry thing

 

[PeterZarolli]

OK big update on the thread, just want to say thank you so much to anyone who has given ideas.

So on Friday, it was at the shop for a diag and they came back to me with a ball joint with play, making the pop and spring bind, making the metal noise. So while the new endlinks that lasted two weeks had torn rubber and did need replacing Im guessing my issue for the clunk has always been with the ball joint. Used some cheap but effective chassis ears and confirmed the ball joint was making noise. So I chalk it up to bad luck on the endlinks.

Spring bind is another story however, after taking it down my driveway, which is insanely steep and I fear the cause of a lot of my suspension problems, the metal noise returned. I looked in the wheel well and noticed that the clip that attached to the strut and hold the brake cable in place was bent and hitting a body panel or some other bolt, bent it back to place, got the brake line in the clip and it is all good.

Now, I suspect my 'alignment' issues were either from this ball joint, or since it mainly happened while braking, I assume the brake line that was just hanging there got twisted / snagged and prevented braking on my passenger side causing me to nearly veer into the opposite lane. The brake line is in good shape still.

So I believe I have my answer, a bad ball joint, which in fairness when I got done last year I was tight on cash and kinda cheaped out on the economy option, additionally I put a lot of KMs on those ball joints, maybe 40k km? So it makes sense they would go.

Everything else on the car seems great! Albeit when I was testing pulling in and out of the driveway I noticed the rear suspension would also make a little click when one end went over the curb before the other. Honestly this just sounds like my old rear suspension compressing and is not that much of a concern as it doesn't happen on any other large or otherwise bumps beside my driveway going forward, I also used the chassis ears on the rear, on the end link and upper and lower control arm (basically that's all the components really back there) and when the noise happened it did not really register on the ears. I assume its either the old struts or some exhaust etc bouncing around or just some inner body panels or something old. I only mention it here incase others have had this issue.

Also today I was looking at getting some rubber driveway curb ramps so hopefully avoid any stress on my vehicle in the future!
Thanks again!

I should also clarify that the loud pop was only on the driver side (after the endlinks at least) and that's where they found the ball joint with play. Whereas the popping / clicks driving was the side of the bent bracket hitting that bolt over bumps and such. I drove it the past few days and the only issue I had with it was the popping noise on the driver side which ideally will be dealt with when they replace the ball joint. If not I will move on to the sway bushing haha.

 

[PeterZarolli]

Ok another quick update, was driving yesterday and hit a speed bump, it was a half speed bump however so only my passenger side went over them. Everyone i went over I got the clunk, this time on the passenger side, then while turning just while regular driving after that on both sides, turning either way. Before this I would only get noise from the driver side, and after the end links the clunk while turning when away now it is back. Does this sound like the sway bushings or the ball joints or maybe loose links? Those are my only theories. I figure if one ball joint has play the other probably does too. Or it could be sway or something else? I am not sure regardless the ball joints are getting done next week.

Not too sure how this form works if I have to @ people for them to see updates but I will at least for this post.
@Graham Piccinini
@Kurtatron

 

[Graham Piccinini]

Ok another quick update, was driving yesterday and hit a speed bump, it was a half speed bump however so only my passenger side went over them. Everyone i went over I got the clunk, this time on the passenger side, then while turning just while regular driving after that on both sides, turning either way. Before this i would only get noise from the driver side, and after the endings the clunk while turning when away now it is back. Does this sound like the sway bushings or the ball joints? I figure if one ball joint has play the other probably does too. Or it could be sway or something else? I am not sure regardless the ball joints are getting done next week.

Not too sure how this form works if I have to @ people for them to see updates but I will at least for this post.
@Graham Piccinini
@Kurtatron

I still bet on sway bar bushings.
When I had ball joints go on vehicles - it was always accompanied by a LOUD metal-on-metal screeching sound when turning the steering wheel, especially if turning it while parked and standing still.
Recently had bad control arm bushings on a Hyundai Genesis V8, and those were making sounds similar to a bad ball joint, but only when steering wheels is turned between 10 & 2 O'clock positions, or over large bumps.

Here is an example of noises I heard with bad ball joints or that control arm on Genesis.


Again - you only mention clunking on bumps. And it's coming directly from where the sway bar is located. So I stand by my guess that it is the sway bar bushings, even if visually they look ok.

 

[PeterZarolli]

I still bet on sway bar bushings.
When I had ball joints go on vehicles - it was always accompanied by a LOUD metal-on-metal screeching sound when turning the steering wheel, especially if turning it while parked and standing still.
Recently had bad control arm bushings on a Hyundai Genesis V8, and those were making sounds similar to a bad ball joint, but only when steering wheels is turned between 10 & 2 O'clock positions, or over large bumps.

Here is an example of noises I heard with bad ball joints or that control arm on Genesis.


Again - you only mention clunking on bumps. And it's coming directly from where the sway bar is located. So I stand by my guess that it is the sway bar bushings, even if visually they look ok.

Great videos thank you!
For the ball joint noise, I definitely had that metal scrape-like noise on my previous ball joints but not on these yet.

As for the sway, I don't seem to ever get the clunk when both wheels go over a bump or in any potholes or bumpy roads, just seems to be in more 'extreme' conditions so to speak, large driveway curb and speed bump. I did just remember when I was testing it on my driveway the other day I did have both wheels go over the curb at the exact same time but with the wheel turned and I got the clunk on my driver's side. So it does happen when one wheel goes first or even when both wheels go just the wheel has to be turned when they both go if that makes sense.
For the speed bump, I got the clunk on the passenger side when only the passenger side hit the speed bump, I was going super slow at first and did not hear it but I sped up a little bit, still a reasonable speed for a speed bump, and got it on the passenger side.

So while the sway symptoms seem to check out for me, I think except for a clunk while just turning while driving (which comes and goes), I also had the thought that maybe the ball joints are popping out of the joint or moving around not enough for a metal scrape but enough for a pop? Maybe why I got noise turning after having the passenger side clunk on the speed bumps? For instance, maybe the speed bump knocked that joint out of place which caused me to clunk on turns? I should also note that today I was not getting any clunk on turns so maybe the joint settled over night. Again I don't know if any of my theories check out, I am still very much an amateur. And while my sway bar is solid even when using a crowbar anything is possible! Not sure how to check or the symptoms of control arm bushings are? And would sway bushings make noise on just regular turns, I know my sway bar has stoppers on it to prevent it from sliding left or right? My other mechanic friend said it could also potentially be the strut bar? As the factory Toyota one has bushings on it? Although the noises do sound more like they are under me. Will try to find a picture of that. So not sure if these specifics change your recommendation at all? But thanks again sorry for the wall of text!

similar to this strut bar, this might be a previous model year but it has similar bushings.

 

[PeterZarolli]

Great videos thank you!
For the ball joint noise, I definitely had that metal scrape-like noise on my previous ball joints but not on these yet.

As for the sway, I don't seem to ever get the clunk when both wheels go over a bump or in any potholes or bumpy roads, just seems to be in more 'extreme' conditions so to speak, large driveway curb and speed bump. I did just remember when I was testing it on my driveway the other day I did have both wheels go over the curb at the exact same time but with the wheel turned and I got the clunk on my driver's side. So it does happen when one wheel goes first or even when both wheels go just the wheel has to be turned when they both go if that makes sense.
For the speed bump, I got the clunk on the passenger side when only the passenger side hit the speed bump, I was going super slow at first and did not hear it but I sped up a little bit, still a reasonable speed for a speed bump, and got it on the passenger side.

So while the sway symptoms seem to check out for me, I think except for a clunk while just turning while driving (which comes and goes), I also had the thought that maybe the ball joints are popping out of the joint or moving around not enough for a metal scrape but enough for a pop? Maybe why I got noise turning after having the passenger side clunk on the speed bumps? For instance, maybe the speed bump knocked that joint out of place which caused me to clunk on turns? I should also note that today I was not getting any clunk on turns so maybe the joint settled over night. Again I don't know if any of my theories check out, I am still very much an amateur. And while my sway bar is solid even when using a crowbar anything is possible! And would sway bushings make noise on just regular turns, I know my sway bar has stoppers on it to prevent it from sliding left or right? My other mechanic friend said it could also potentially be the strut bar? As the factory Toyota one has bushings on it? Although the noises do sound more like they are under me. Will try to find a picture of that. So not sure if these specifics change your recommendation at all? But thanks again sorry for the wall of text!

View attachment 226995 similar to this strut bar, this might be a previous model year but it has similar bushings.

Also! The clunks while turning never seem to happen while stationary? New CV Axles both sides too

 

[Graham Piccinini]

If the ball joint is loose enough to pop - then it's waaaay past the scraping stage and will break off with your wheel in a few miles. Therefore no - it is not the ball joint.

The noise you hear only happens in certain suspension geometry position, so bushings likely aren't fully torn, but they're not good either. As time and miles go by - sound will be happening more frequently.

Start occasionally spraying the sway bar bushings bolts with WD-40 or penetrating fluid of your choice. That way when you finally and inevitably go to replace them - they'll actually spin off and no drilling will be required.

 

[PeterZarolli]

If the ball joint is loose enough to pop - then it's waaaay past the scraping stage and will break off with your wheel in a few miles. Therefore no - it is not the ball joint.
View attachment 227009

The noise you hear only happens in certain suspension geometry position, so bushings likely aren't fully torn, but they're not good either. As time and miles go by - sound will be happening more frequently.

Start occasionally spraying the sway bar bushings bolts with WD-40 or penetrating fluid of your choice. That way when you finally and inevitably go to replace them - they'll actually spin off and no drilling will be required.

OK perfect thanks! Ball joint still has play so I think ill replace that but will spray it with WD until it has the appointment, ill see if they can give it a shot thank you very much!

 

[PeterZarolli]

If the ball joint is loose enough to pop - then it's waaaay past the scraping stage and will break off with your wheel in a few miles. Therefore no - it is not the ball joint.
View attachment 227009

The noise you hear only happens in certain suspension geometry position, so bushings likely aren't fully torn, but they're not good either. As time and miles go by - sound will be happening more frequently.

Start occasionally spraying the sway bar bushings bolts with WD-40 or penetrating fluid of your choice. That way when you finally and inevitably go to replace them - they'll actually spin off and no drilling will be required.

Yesterday when I was spraying the sway bushing bolts I noticed my rear engine mount looks a bit mangled. This might explain the clunk over the bumps and why I get a vibration in drive but not neutral? Let me know to anyone does this mount look bad? I also had someone go from drive to reverse to park while I looked at the mount, and while I know there should be some play, the mount went from the middle in park, all the way bottomed out in drive and topped out in reverse, moving the entire threshold of the mount. Not sure if this means the mount is bad.

 

[Graham Piccinini]

I've seen worse mounts. In my opinion - this one is still good. I had rear failed motor mounts before on a few vehicles, and the clunk from them was only present when going into D or R, or when accelerating from a stop. And it was always a strong hit on the same spot, around where the mount is located. But what you explained earlier is clunk being either on driver or passenger side, or both. That is more of a trait of failed sway bar bushings.

 

[PeterZarolli]

I've seen worse mounts. In my opinion - this one is still good. I had rear failed motor mounts before on a few vehicles, and the clunk from them was only present when going into D or R, or when accelerating from a stop. And it was always a strong hit on the same spot, around where the mount is located. But what you explained earlier is clunk being either on driver or passenger side, or both. That is more of a trait of failed sway bar bushings.

Alright thank you! Shame I thought I was on to something here

 

[Graham Piccinini]

https://siberianbushing.com/part/1-01-810

 

[PeterZarolli]

https://siberianbushing.com/part/1-01-810

Perfect thanks! I think my local shop that I am taking it to already has a set of bushings set aside for me incase they can get the brackets off. Additionally since its hard to tell from the picture, even if this mount was bad would it even make noise starting or stopping moving the car since it appears to be strong horizontally but weaker with vertical movement? Basically my thought process is it wouldn't show horizontal play like with braking etc but it could with verticle hitting bumps etc? Plus there was a tone of engine movement and I get vibrations when the transmission is engaged? Either way Ill ask the shop to check it out when they do the ball joints, and hopefully the bushings this Thursday! I bought some strong penetrating fluid so hopefully that does the job, thanks again!

 

[PeterZarolli]

Final update (Hopefully)

The shop checked out the mount, it was bad but the other mounts on the car were good, ball joints replaced but the sway bushing bolts are still stuck... Gonna keep spraying them and hopefully get them off one of these days. Will be picking up the car after work, my theory is if it was not the bushings (hopefully) that the engine was moving so much maybe the axle was making the noise? Again I am not mechanic so I am not sure. Will reply to this post after I have driven it for a bit. Thanks again everyone!

 

[PeterZarolli]

Final update (Hopefully)

The shop checked out the mount, it was bad but the other mounts on the car were good, ball joints replaced but the sway bushing bolts are still stuck... Gonna keep spraying them and hopefully get them off one of these days. Will be picking up the car after work, my theory is if it was not the bushings (hopefully) that the engine was moving so much maybe the axle was making the noise? Again I am not mechanic so I am not sure. Will reply to this post after I have driven it for a bit. Thanks again everyone!

Ok got the car, tested it a bit all seems well! So maybe a combo of the BJs and the mount? Maybe neither and the issue is still there, hopefully not though haha. Needs an alignment after the ball joints so it’s going in for one at a different shop tmr, will ask them about the bushing bolts see what they can do. If the noise returns im sure ill be back here but for now thanks again everyone who helped!

 

[PeterZarolli]

A little update on everything! After the ball joints and driver side engine mounts were replaced the driveway clunk went away! Pretty confident that it was a mix of both as I asked to keep the old mounts and they are torn up, picture attached.

However lol, now, not all the time but occasionally when I brake before/ while making a left hand turn I get a similar sounding clunk to what i had before which sounds like it is on the passenger side but I am not sure. Seemingly only turning left and after / during braking. Two days ago I was able to replicate the noise multiple times by just braking somewhat hard while then making a left hand turn, braking mostly was before I started the turn. I attached a go pro in my engine bay lol and under my car to try and catch the noise but after jacking up my engine to see if the mount had play i’ve been unable to replicate the noise both yesterday and today. The images attached show you what the mount is like at the bottom out where it normal sits vs. jacked up.

Regardless it sounds like a big pop or a twang almost and is seemingly coming from the passenger side. I know the idea of the sway bushings was suggested here before but I get no other symptoms of that on bumpy roads etc and I checked and my bushings don’t really seem cracked or worn and the sway bar isn’t moving an inch. My leading theory is that it is the other side engine mounts. The one at the top of the engine is seemingly bottomed out, i’ll attach a video if I can where i jacked the engine up from the oil pan and you can see the mount is bottomed out. Another symptom that might lend credence to the engine mount therory is at some angles my car sits at on the road etc I get a vibration in the cab, made worse with the AC on which is also on the passenger side with the mounts i assume are bad. Like i said i did jack the engine up by the oil pan to see and it had a lot of movement but not sure if that is normal.

Any help is very much appreciated!

UPDATE:
I just remembered, a few weeks ago when I was driving over those like new half speed bumps, they were only on my passenger side so only that wheel hit them and every time it hit them I got a very similar noise to the clunk I get now, not sure if this will help

 

[PeterZarolli]

A little update on everything! After the ball joints and driver side engine mounts were replaced the driveway clunk went away! Pretty confident that it was a mix of both as I asked to keep the old mounts and they are torn up, picture attached.

However lol, now, not all the time but occasionally when I brake before/ while making a left hand turn I get a similar sounding clunk to what i had before which sounds like it is on the passenger side but I am not sure. Seemingly only turning left and after / during braking. Two days ago I was able to replicate the noise multiple times by just braking somewhat hard while then making a left hand turn, braking mostly was before I started the turn.
Regardless it sounds like a big pop or a twang almost and is seemingly coming from the passenger side. I know the idea of the sway bushings was suggested here before but I get no other symptoms of that on bumpy roads etc and I checked and my bushings don’t really seem cracked or worn and the sway bar isn’t moving an inch. My leading theory is that it is the other side engine mounts. The one at the top of the engine is seemingly bottomed out, i’ll attach a video if I can where i jacked the engine up from the oil pan and you can see the mount is bottomed out. Another symptom that might lend credence to the engine mount therory is at some angles my car sits at on the road etc I get a vibration in the cab, made worse with the AC on which is also on the passenger side with the mounts i assume are bad. Like i said i did jack the engine up by the oil pan to see and it had a lot of movement but not sure if that is normal.

Any help is very much appreciated!

 

[Leo99]

I had the clunk in both my old RAV4 and Corolla. In the RAV4 it was the sway bar links. In my Corolla it was a new defective strut.

 

[PeterZarolli]

I had the clunk in both my old RAV4 and Corolla. In the RAV4 it was the sway bar links. In my Corolla it was a new defective strut.

Doubt its the links have changed those 2-3 times now haha. Could be the strut however those are also new, I do remember that when putting the passenger side strut on we did have to tighten the top hat bolt as the top hat was a bit loose, would you have any tips for checking the strut?