2009 Toyota Matrix ... Clunk Pulling Out of Driveway

[PeterZarolli]

OK big update on the thread, just want to say thank you so much to anyone who has given ideas.

So on Friday, it was at the shop for a diag and they came back to me with a ball joint with play, making the pop and spring bind, making the metal noise. So while the new endlinks that lasted two weeks had torn rubber and did need replacing Im guessing my issue for the clunk has always been with the ball joint. Used some cheap but effective chassis ears and confirmed the ball joint was making noise. So I chalk it up to bad luck on the endlinks.

Spring bind is another story however, after taking it down my driveway, which is insanely steep and I fear the cause of a lot of my suspension problems, the metal noise returned. I looked in the wheel well and noticed that the clip that attached to the strut and hold the brake cable in place was bent and hitting a body panel or some other bolt, bent it back to place, got the brake line in the clip and it is all good.

Now, I suspect my 'alignment' issues were either from this ball joint, or since it mainly happened while braking, I assume the brake line that was just hanging there got twisted / snagged and prevented braking on my passenger side causing me to nearly veer into the opposite lane. The brake line is in good shape still.

So I believe I have my answer, a bad ball joint, which in fairness when I got done last year I was tight on cash and kinda cheaped out on the economy option, additionally I put a lot of KMs on those ball joints, maybe 40k km? So it makes sense they would go.

Everything else on the car seems great! Albeit when I was testing pulling in and out of the driveway I noticed the rear suspension would also make a little click when one end went over the curb before the other. Honestly this just sounds like my old rear suspension compressing and is not that much of a concern as it doesn't happen on any other large or otherwise bumps beside my driveway going forward, I also used the chassis ears on the rear, on the end link and upper and lower control arm (basically that's all the components really back there) and when the noise happened it did not really register on the ears. I assume its either the old struts or some exhaust etc bouncing around or just some inner body panels or something old. I only mention it here incase others have had this issue.

Also today I was looking at getting some rubber driveway curb ramps so hopefully avoid any stress on my vehicle in the future!
Thanks again!

And if the clunk persists I will get the shop to do the sway bushings like @Kurtatron suggested! hopefully this is the end to this saga as I had the chassis ears on the endlink, albeit not the sway bar but they are attached lol, regardless when I got the noise on the ears on the ball joints the links didn't light up at all. So hopefully I don't have to replace them! Thanks for the advice!

 

[PeterZarolli]

Intermediate shaft clunking when telescoping?

Or does the matrix/vibe not suffer that defect that I swear every Camry has

I havn't experienced that on the Matrix so much just be a camry thing

 

[PeterZarolli]

OK big update on the thread, just want to say thank you so much to anyone who has given ideas.

So on Friday, it was at the shop for a diag and they came back to me with a ball joint with play, making the pop and spring bind, making the metal noise. So while the new endlinks that lasted two weeks had torn rubber and did need replacing Im guessing my issue for the clunk has always been with the ball joint. Used some cheap but effective chassis ears and confirmed the ball joint was making noise. So I chalk it up to bad luck on the endlinks.

Spring bind is another story however, after taking it down my driveway, which is insanely steep and I fear the cause of a lot of my suspension problems, the metal noise returned. I looked in the wheel well and noticed that the clip that attached to the strut and hold the brake cable in place was bent and hitting a body panel or some other bolt, bent it back to place, got the brake line in the clip and it is all good.

Now, I suspect my 'alignment' issues were either from this ball joint, or since it mainly happened while braking, I assume the brake line that was just hanging there got twisted / snagged and prevented braking on my passenger side causing me to nearly veer into the opposite lane. The brake line is in good shape still.

So I believe I have my answer, a bad ball joint, which in fairness when I got done last year I was tight on cash and kinda cheaped out on the economy option, additionally I put a lot of KMs on those ball joints, maybe 40k km? So it makes sense they would go.

Everything else on the car seems great! Albeit when I was testing pulling in and out of the driveway I noticed the rear suspension would also make a little click when one end went over the curb before the other. Honestly this just sounds like my old rear suspension compressing and is not that much of a concern as it doesn't happen on any other large or otherwise bumps beside my driveway going forward, I also used the chassis ears on the rear, on the end link and upper and lower control arm (basically that's all the components really back there) and when the noise happened it did not really register on the ears. I assume its either the old struts or some exhaust etc bouncing around or just some inner body panels or something old. I only mention it here incase others have had this issue.

Also today I was looking at getting some rubber driveway curb ramps so hopefully avoid any stress on my vehicle in the future!
Thanks again!

I should also clarify that the loud pop was only on the driver side (after the endlinks at least) and that's where they found the ball joint with play. Whereas the popping / clicks driving was the side of the bent bracket hitting that bolt over bumps and such. I drove it the past few days and the only issue I had with it was the popping noise on the driver side which ideally will be dealt with when they replace the ball joint. If not I will move on to the sway bushing haha.

 

[PeterZarolli]

Ok another quick update, was driving yesterday and hit a speed bump, it was a half speed bump however so only my passenger side went over them. Everyone i went over I got the clunk, this time on the passenger side, then while turning just while regular driving after that on both sides, turning either way. Before this I would only get noise from the driver side, and after the end links the clunk while turning when away now it is back. Does this sound like the sway bushings or the ball joints or maybe loose links? Those are my only theories. I figure if one ball joint has play the other probably does too. Or it could be sway or something else? I am not sure regardless the ball joints are getting done next week.

Not too sure how this form works if I have to @ people for them to see updates but I will at least for this post.
@Graham Piccinini
@Kurtatron

 

[Graham Piccinini]

Ok another quick update, was driving yesterday and hit a speed bump, it was a half speed bump however so only my passenger side went over them. Everyone i went over I got the clunk, this time on the passenger side, then while turning just while regular driving after that on both sides, turning either way. Before this i would only get noise from the driver side, and after the endings the clunk while turning when away now it is back. Does this sound like the sway bushings or the ball joints? I figure if one ball joint has play the other probably does too. Or it could be sway or something else? I am not sure regardless the ball joints are getting done next week.

Not too sure how this form works if I have to @ people for them to see updates but I will at least for this post.
@Graham Piccinini
@Kurtatron

I still bet on sway bar bushings.
When I had ball joints go on vehicles - it was always accompanied by a LOUD metal-on-metal screeching sound when turning the steering wheel, especially if turning it while parked and standing still.
Recently had bad control arm bushings on a Hyundai Genesis V8, and those were making sounds similar to a bad ball joint, but only when steering wheels is turned between 10 & 2 O'clock positions, or over large bumps.

Here is an example of noises I heard with bad ball joints or that control arm on Genesis.


Again - you only mention clunking on bumps. And it's coming directly from where the sway bar is located. So I stand by my guess that it is the sway bar bushings, even if visually they look ok.

 

[PeterZarolli]

I still bet on sway bar bushings.
When I had ball joints go on vehicles - it was always accompanied by a LOUD metal-on-metal screeching sound when turning the steering wheel, especially if turning it while parked and standing still.
Recently had bad control arm bushings on a Hyundai Genesis V8, and those were making sounds similar to a bad ball joint, but only when steering wheels is turned between 10 & 2 O'clock positions, or over large bumps.

Here is an example of noises I heard with bad ball joints or that control arm on Genesis.


Again - you only mention clunking on bumps. And it's coming directly from where the sway bar is located. So I stand by my guess that it is the sway bar bushings, even if visually they look ok.

Great videos thank you!
For the ball joint noise, I definitely had that metal scrape-like noise on my previous ball joints but not on these yet.

As for the sway, I don't seem to ever get the clunk when both wheels go over a bump or in any potholes or bumpy roads, just seems to be in more 'extreme' conditions so to speak, large driveway curb and speed bump. I did just remember when I was testing it on my driveway the other day I did have both wheels go over the curb at the exact same time but with the wheel turned and I got the clunk on my driver's side. So it does happen when one wheel goes first or even when both wheels go just the wheel has to be turned when they both go if that makes sense.
For the speed bump, I got the clunk on the passenger side when only the passenger side hit the speed bump, I was going super slow at first and did not hear it but I sped up a little bit, still a reasonable speed for a speed bump, and got it on the passenger side.

So while the sway symptoms seem to check out for me, I think except for a clunk while just turning while driving (which comes and goes), I also had the thought that maybe the ball joints are popping out of the joint or moving around not enough for a metal scrape but enough for a pop? Maybe why I got noise turning after having the passenger side clunk on the speed bumps? For instance, maybe the speed bump knocked that joint out of place which caused me to clunk on turns? I should also note that today I was not getting any clunk on turns so maybe the joint settled over night. Again I don't know if any of my theories check out, I am still very much an amateur. And while my sway bar is solid even when using a crowbar anything is possible! Not sure how to check or the symptoms of control arm bushings are? And would sway bushings make noise on just regular turns, I know my sway bar has stoppers on it to prevent it from sliding left or right? My other mechanic friend said it could also potentially be the strut bar? As the factory Toyota one has bushings on it? Although the noises do sound more like they are under me. Will try to find a picture of that. So not sure if these specifics change your recommendation at all? But thanks again sorry for the wall of text!

similar to this strut bar, this might be a previous model year but it has similar bushings.

 

[PeterZarolli]

Great videos thank you!
For the ball joint noise, I definitely had that metal scrape-like noise on my previous ball joints but not on these yet.

As for the sway, I don't seem to ever get the clunk when both wheels go over a bump or in any potholes or bumpy roads, just seems to be in more 'extreme' conditions so to speak, large driveway curb and speed bump. I did just remember when I was testing it on my driveway the other day I did have both wheels go over the curb at the exact same time but with the wheel turned and I got the clunk on my driver's side. So it does happen when one wheel goes first or even when both wheels go just the wheel has to be turned when they both go if that makes sense.
For the speed bump, I got the clunk on the passenger side when only the passenger side hit the speed bump, I was going super slow at first and did not hear it but I sped up a little bit, still a reasonable speed for a speed bump, and got it on the passenger side.

So while the sway symptoms seem to check out for me, I think except for a clunk while just turning while driving (which comes and goes), I also had the thought that maybe the ball joints are popping out of the joint or moving around not enough for a metal scrape but enough for a pop? Maybe why I got noise turning after having the passenger side clunk on the speed bumps? For instance, maybe the speed bump knocked that joint out of place which caused me to clunk on turns? I should also note that today I was not getting any clunk on turns so maybe the joint settled over night. Again I don't know if any of my theories check out, I am still very much an amateur. And while my sway bar is solid even when using a crowbar anything is possible! And would sway bushings make noise on just regular turns, I know my sway bar has stoppers on it to prevent it from sliding left or right? My other mechanic friend said it could also potentially be the strut bar? As the factory Toyota one has bushings on it? Although the noises do sound more like they are under me. Will try to find a picture of that. So not sure if these specifics change your recommendation at all? But thanks again sorry for the wall of text!

View attachment 226995 similar to this strut bar, this might be a previous model year but it has similar bushings.

Also! The clunks while turning never seem to happen while stationary? New CV Axles both sides too

 

[Graham Piccinini]

If the ball joint is loose enough to pop - then it's waaaay past the scraping stage and will break off with your wheel in a few miles. Therefore no - it is not the ball joint.

The noise you hear only happens in certain suspension geometry position, so bushings likely aren't fully torn, but they're not good either. As time and miles go by - sound will be happening more frequently.

Start occasionally spraying the sway bar bushings bolts with WD-40 or penetrating fluid of your choice. That way when you finally and inevitably go to replace them - they'll actually spin off and no drilling will be required.

 

[PeterZarolli]

If the ball joint is loose enough to pop - then it's waaaay past the scraping stage and will break off with your wheel in a few miles. Therefore no - it is not the ball joint.
View attachment 227009

The noise you hear only happens in certain suspension geometry position, so bushings likely aren't fully torn, but they're not good either. As time and miles go by - sound will be happening more frequently.

Start occasionally spraying the sway bar bushings bolts with WD-40 or penetrating fluid of your choice. That way when you finally and inevitably go to replace them - they'll actually spin off and no drilling will be required.

OK perfect thanks! Ball joint still has play so I think ill replace that but will spray it with WD until it has the appointment, ill see if they can give it a shot thank you very much!