Toyota 0w20, 6644 miles, 2006 Civic
- Thread starter Patman
- Start date
- Status
Patman
Staff member
Originally Posted By: tig1
Patman,
What about the flash point?
They don't test for flash point in the MOB1 package at Wearcheck unfortunately.
As luck would have it, Canadian Tire has a 50% off sale on Gumout Regane fuel system products starting tomorrow! So I'm going to do two back to back doses over the next two tankfuls.
Patman,
What about the flash point?
They don't test for flash point in the MOB1 package at Wearcheck unfortunately.
As luck would have it, Canadian Tire has a 50% off sale on Gumout Regane fuel system products starting tomorrow! So I'm going to do two back to back doses over the next two tankfuls.
I think we have a case of another screw up in a UOA report. Have them run it again, or use another lab. Then decide if looking into an issue with the fuel injectors is in order.
Patman
Staff member
I'm not sure that a lab could run a sample again and get an accurate fuel check, because the longer the sample sits I would imagine that fuel level would go down due to evaporation wouldn't it?
Originally Posted By: Patman
I'm not sure that a lab could run a sample again and get an accurate fuel check, because the longer the sample sits I would imagine that fuel level would go down due to evaporation wouldn't it?
I hear ya. There lies one of the flaws of a UOA report. How certain can you be that your report is accurate? All other numbers look good though.
I'm not sure that a lab could run a sample again and get an accurate fuel check, because the longer the sample sits I would imagine that fuel level would go down due to evaporation wouldn't it?
I hear ya. There lies one of the flaws of a UOA report. How certain can you be that your report is accurate? All other numbers look good though.
Originally Posted By: Patman
I'm not sure that a lab could run a sample again and get an accurate fuel check, because the longer the sample sits I would imagine that fuel level would go down due to evaporation wouldn't it?
I would think that it remains sealed and opened ONLY for taking a small amount for testing.
Bill
I'm not sure that a lab could run a sample again and get an accurate fuel check, because the longer the sample sits I would imagine that fuel level would go down due to evaporation wouldn't it?
I would think that it remains sealed and opened ONLY for taking a small amount for testing.
Bill
Contaminated oil sample ??
Last edited:
Patman
Staff member
So here is my plan, I went to Canadian Tire tonight and picked up one bottle of Gumout Regane Fuel System Cleaner and one bottle of Gumout fuel injector cleaner, and I'm going to run each bottle for two back to back complete tankfuls of gas. I will then run this current batch of oil until the maintenance minder hits 15%, which should probably be around November and then I'll change the oil and do another UOA and see what affect it has on the fuel number. If the number is still just as high, then I'll take it to a Honda dealer and ask them to check the fuel injectors and replace if necessary.
My V70R had a bad injector at one point and was showing about 5% fuel in 2 successive UOA's. I could clearly smell gas in the oil when changing it and even on the dipstick. Can you smell any fuel? If not, I'd have to lean towards "measurement error".
Patman
Staff member
To be honest I really didn't smell any fuel when I was draining the oil but then again I didn't make an effort to look out for that either, so it's possible it could have smelled of fuel. On the next oil change I will definitely have a quick sniff of the sample before closing up the bottle to take to the lab.
Originally Posted By: Patman
So here is my plan, I went to Canadian Tire tonight and picked up one bottle of Gumout Regane Fuel System Cleaner and one bottle of Gumout fuel injector cleaner, and I'm going to run each bottle for two back to back complete tankfuls of gas. I will then run this current batch of oil until the maintenance minder hits 15%, which should probably be around November and then I'll change the oil and do another UOA and see what affect it has on the fuel number. If the number is still just as high, then I'll take it to a Honda dealer and ask them to check the fuel injectors and replace if necessary.
The fuel injector cleaner is very weak. I would use 2 of the Regane's or buy the All In One Fuel System Cleaner which is the same as Regane and enough for 2 doses.
So here is my plan, I went to Canadian Tire tonight and picked up one bottle of Gumout Regane Fuel System Cleaner and one bottle of Gumout fuel injector cleaner, and I'm going to run each bottle for two back to back complete tankfuls of gas. I will then run this current batch of oil until the maintenance minder hits 15%, which should probably be around November and then I'll change the oil and do another UOA and see what affect it has on the fuel number. If the number is still just as high, then I'll take it to a Honda dealer and ask them to check the fuel injectors and replace if necessary.
The fuel injector cleaner is very weak. I would use 2 of the Regane's or buy the All In One Fuel System Cleaner which is the same as Regane and enough for 2 doses.
It is very likely that something wrong either with viscosity or fuel. I may be mistaken, but if initial viscosity @100C was about 8.5 cst then with 7% fuel the viscosity would have to be lower than 6.6 cst
Last edited:
On a Civic, you should be able to use a 'mechanic stethoscope' OR a large screw driver with the tip on the injector and the other to your ear...listen to all 4 injectors.
Any OBVIOUS difference?
Any OBVIOUS difference?
Originally Posted By: Primus
It is very likely that something wrong either with viscosity or fuel. I may be mistaken, but if initial viscosity @100C was about 8.5 cst then with 7% fuel the viscosity would have to be lower than 6.6 cst
Unless the oil thickened from oxidation, VOA to UOA state THEN fuel is more of a guess at this point.
I'm not used to reading 'Wearcheck' yet, so not sure what the Oxidation of 130 reads like...that could explain fuel and not being 'super' thin, though it 'is' thin either way you slice it.
ADDED: Re-reading the OP, might it also appear fuel is able to be confirmed with Nitration and/or Sulfation numbers being where they are for 6.5k...seems a bit high on Nitration(again not sure on sulfation)?...sulfur itself was over 4,000.
It is very likely that something wrong either with viscosity or fuel. I may be mistaken, but if initial viscosity @100C was about 8.5 cst then with 7% fuel the viscosity would have to be lower than 6.6 cst
Unless the oil thickened from oxidation, VOA to UOA state THEN fuel is more of a guess at this point.
I'm not used to reading 'Wearcheck' yet, so not sure what the Oxidation of 130 reads like...that could explain fuel and not being 'super' thin, though it 'is' thin either way you slice it.
ADDED: Re-reading the OP, might it also appear fuel is able to be confirmed with Nitration and/or Sulfation numbers being where they are for 6.5k...seems a bit high on Nitration(again not sure on sulfation)?...sulfur itself was over 4,000.
Last edited:
Patman
Staff member
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
On a Civic, you should be able to use a 'mechanic stethoscope' OR a large screw driver with the tip on the injector and the other to your ear...listen to all 4 injectors.
Any OBVIOUS difference?
I will try that out tomorrow morning when I take the car out for a drive.
But given the fact that the engine runs perfectly and the fuel economy is still fantastic, does it still seem like something could be wrong with one of the injectors though? Wouldn't a problem injector give some sort of other indicator that the average driver that doesn't do UOAs might notice? Or could this simply be a problem where the injector is leaking when the engine is shut down, so it's slowing dribbling fuel into the engine (which then makes its way into the oil) but when the engine is running it still works perfectly, hence the great fuel economy on the highway. Thoughts?
On a Civic, you should be able to use a 'mechanic stethoscope' OR a large screw driver with the tip on the injector and the other to your ear...listen to all 4 injectors.
Any OBVIOUS difference?
I will try that out tomorrow morning when I take the car out for a drive.
But given the fact that the engine runs perfectly and the fuel economy is still fantastic, does it still seem like something could be wrong with one of the injectors though? Wouldn't a problem injector give some sort of other indicator that the average driver that doesn't do UOAs might notice? Or could this simply be a problem where the injector is leaking when the engine is shut down, so it's slowing dribbling fuel into the engine (which then makes its way into the oil) but when the engine is running it still works perfectly, hence the great fuel economy on the highway. Thoughts?
^Hmm, might be more of a leak down issue. Sounds like a good theory to me.
Patman
Staff member
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
^Hmm, might be more of a leak down issue. Sounds like a good theory to me.
So if that is indeed the issue, could that type of a problem be cured with a good injector cleaning, or would that injector definitely need replacing?
^Hmm, might be more of a leak down issue. Sounds like a good theory to me.
So if that is indeed the issue, could that type of a problem be cured with a good injector cleaning, or would that injector definitely need replacing?
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: yonyon
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Fuel if indeed that high is the highest I have seen in a gasoline engine.
You young kids have missed some fun stuff. Back in the olden days when dinosaurs roamed the earth and people invented cars to make running away from the nastier dinosaurs easier there were also things called carburetors. Carburetors magically made the engine run, but only when something called a 'mechanical fuel pump' fed fuel to the carburetor. It was some kind of crazy hocus pocus almost as unbelievable as these ridiculous claims about so called "diesel engines" that run without any spark plugs in them. I didn't believe it until I saw one with my own eyes. Anyway, these mechanical fuel pumps would eventually start leaking fuel into the crankcase when they'd get old and usually the oil would get to be diluted to the tune of 50% to 75% before low compression while cranking would make starting very difficult. 7%? It can happen.
I am far from a kid and have owned a couple of GM trucks and cars with carburetors.
But where is the excessive fuel you speak of?
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2360742
This is a small sample but if a carb was in tune I do not see a problem. 7% fuel is just too high for a gasoline engine any way you look at it. But with even the highest wear being at less than 10PPM, this just does not seem right.
Oh, they don't all go bad like that obviously, but it's pretty common for a mechanical fuel pump to do that after a quarter century or so.
Originally Posted By: yonyon
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Fuel if indeed that high is the highest I have seen in a gasoline engine.
You young kids have missed some fun stuff. Back in the olden days when dinosaurs roamed the earth and people invented cars to make running away from the nastier dinosaurs easier there were also things called carburetors. Carburetors magically made the engine run, but only when something called a 'mechanical fuel pump' fed fuel to the carburetor. It was some kind of crazy hocus pocus almost as unbelievable as these ridiculous claims about so called "diesel engines" that run without any spark plugs in them. I didn't believe it until I saw one with my own eyes. Anyway, these mechanical fuel pumps would eventually start leaking fuel into the crankcase when they'd get old and usually the oil would get to be diluted to the tune of 50% to 75% before low compression while cranking would make starting very difficult. 7%? It can happen.
I am far from a kid and have owned a couple of GM trucks and cars with carburetors.
But where is the excessive fuel you speak of?
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2360742
This is a small sample but if a carb was in tune I do not see a problem. 7% fuel is just too high for a gasoline engine any way you look at it. But with even the highest wear being at less than 10PPM, this just does not seem right.
Oh, they don't all go bad like that obviously, but it's pretty common for a mechanical fuel pump to do that after a quarter century or so.
Originally Posted By: Patman
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
^Hmm, might be more of a leak down issue. Sounds like a good theory to me.
So if that is indeed the issue, could that type of a problem be cured with a good injector cleaning, or would that injector definitely need replacing?
This Trav would need to answer. I don't know, it seems like a mechanical issue with a leak down problem off hand, but I'm total noob at injectors.
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
^Hmm, might be more of a leak down issue. Sounds like a good theory to me.
So if that is indeed the issue, could that type of a problem be cured with a good injector cleaning, or would that injector definitely need replacing?
This Trav would need to answer. I don't know, it seems like a mechanical issue with a leak down problem off hand, but I'm total noob at injectors.
If an injector were over fueling, wouldn't you be able to pull the spark plug in that cylinder and tell if its running rich too? Also, what if he has a bad fuel pressure regulator or fuel pump? If one of them is causing low fuel pressure, but not low enough that its stops running, wouldn't this cause issues with the spray pattern in all of them? If your spray pattern isn't correct...or I guess I should say if the fuel isn't atomizing properly, it will not burn completely, possibly causing the fuel dilution in the oil. I know, its a stretch, just trying to run all the scenarios through my head. I work on diesels for a living, and I've seen injector tips get dirty or damaged that the truck still seems to run ok, but you get a little black smoke out the stack because while that injector is still working, the tip can't properly atomize the fuel meaning that cylinder can't burn all the fuel its getting, even though its technically still getting the proper amount. This causes smoke like a cylinder that is being "over fueled."
Last edited:
- Status
Similar threads
