Toyota 0W-20 Black Bottle

[Bruce T]

Code:


OIL TESTED: Toyota 0W-20 Toyota 0W-20

………………….. black bottle red bottle

………………….. 00279-0WQTE 00289-1QT0W

SAMPLE DATE: Apr 10…………… Dec 09……….



WEAR METALS:

Iron………………………. 1 (1.1)……………. 2

Copper……………….. 0 (0.1)……………. 1

Tin………………….……. 2 (0.1)……………. 12

Lead…………………….. 0 (0)……………… 0

Chromium……………. 0 (0)……………… 0

Nickel…………………. 0 (0)……………… 0

Aluminum………….. 3 (11)…………….. 2

Titanium……………. 0 (0)……………… 0

Silver……………….. 0 (0)……………… 0



ADDITIVE METALS:

Calcium….…………. 2071 (2356)……… 1809

Magnesium…….…. 16 (11)…………… 17

Zinc…..………………. 939 (814)………… 913

Phosphorous……. 856 (801)………… 900

Barium……...……… 4 (0)……….……… 14

Molybdenum………. 924 (656)………… 1200

Antimony………….. 0 (1.1)……………. 0



CONTAMINANT METALS:

Silicon…………….… 3 (0)……………… 42

Sodium……..………… 6 (2.8)……………. 5

Boron……….……….. 77 (75)…………… 184

Potassium…………. 0 (11)…………….. 0

Vanadium………….. 0 (0)……………… 0



PHYSICAL AND OTHER:

Viscosity 40°C 41.1 (41.74)….. 40.2

Viscosity 100°C 8.8 (9.19)………… 8.9

Viscosity Index 202 (211)………… 212

Flash(CCCFP)°F 400………………. 375

TAN…………...………… 1.76 (1.02)………. 1.83

TBN……..…………….. 6.9 (6.94)………… 6.7

Oxidation…………. 32………….……… 15

Nitration…………… 5……………….….. 6

Water by KF……. 1100……….……… 1490

Fuel……..………….. 0………………….. 0.62

Soot………..……….. 0………………….. 0

Glycol……...….. 1.74………………. 0

Sulfate byprod. 35………………… 20



It's wonderful to have another VOA available to compare to Dyson Analysis. Thanks for having this done, river_rat. The black bottle was ordered from Toyota Parts Zone in Norwalk, California.

It's a tedious task to compare my VOA against Rob's results, so I've placed his numbers after mine in parentheses. Given normal sample and laboratory variances, I'm pleased with the correlation between the two black bottle VOAs. Aluminum is a bit out of whack. Moly has a spread of 268, but both are still high moly numbers. Look how close the Boron numbers tracked.

Here is the original red bottle VOA from December 2009. Also, it briefly discusses why Terry's lab can show higher ppm on some readings (like Zinc, Phosphorous, and Moly in this case) due to his lab detecting large particles up to 10 microns:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/toyota-0w-20-beside-previous-voas.122191/

Before the red bottle, I tested 0W-20s from Honda, Red Line, and RLI. The thread discusses how to interpret specific tests from Terry's lab, such as the Closed Cup Flash Point and KF titration:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/honda-0w20-red-line-0w20-rli-bio-syn-0w20.117108/

As Caterham noted, viscosities tend to read higher from WearCheck. I do like the higher flash point for the black bottle. TAN and TBN are very close.

Both black and red bottle look like they were designed to meet the same demands, but Terry didn't know who made the black bottle. Credit for discovering the black bottle variation goes to PurplePride:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/think-i-got-hoodwinked-by-toyota-dealer-on-oil.127880/

 

[Bumpside 427]

Thanks for the further info. Like I said in the thread you quoted, it is a Mobil barcode on the new black bottles.
Guess now we wait on used oil analysis.

 

[river_rat]

Thanks Bruce!

 

[CATERHAM]

Bruce, an excellent chart, thanks for that.

We have a couple of used oil analysis on the original Nippon Oil version of the Toyota oil and we know it's shears down about 8% in less than 4,000 miles. That's certainly acceptable and better than many oils with much lower VI's.
I'm currently running it in my Caterham which has both an oil pressure and oil temperature gauge so any change in viscosity with mileage can be seen as it happens. I can advise that that small amount of shear does occur quickly, after only 300 miles, but then stabilizes. I've even tracked the car with this oil this year and no further shear has occurred.

So while the virgin 100C vis is 8.8 cSt, because of the almost immediate shear I consider it a 8.2 cSt oil.

 

[demarpaint]

I wonder if the Mobil flavor will shear any less? Time and used oil analysis will tell.

 

[CATERHAM]

I suspect it will if for no other reason because M1's 0W-20 shears as much if not more than the original Nippon Oil made Toyota 0W-20.

My hunch is that the Honda Brand 0W-20 might shear a little less in part because it's 100C vis spec' is lower.

 

[demarpaint]

I guess it would be safe to say when comparing the Toyota 0W20 to the Honda 0W20, that after the shearing you'll have six of one, a half dozen of the other.

 

[sbergman27]

So... what's the HTHS on this, I wonder? And if 90ppm of moly is good (as in Mobil 1)... is 600+ ppm of moly actually any better? Or is it just more moly?

Someone said earlier in the thread that the current Mobil 1 0w20 wasn't as good as this. And I have to wonder... because the used oil analysis I've seen for the Mobil 1 0w20, even up to 14,000 miles, look stunningly wonderful.

 

[demarpaint]

IMO the specs of this oil are better than most 0W20 oils and is why there is so much interest in it. It would be interesting to see a some UOA reports. I would rather use this oil than Mobil 1 0w20, and more than likely will be using it when I'm due for my next OCI. I'd like to see PU and Edge in 0w20 side by side.

 

[CATERHAM]

You can pretty much assume
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I guess it would be safe to say when comparing the Toyota 0W20 to the Honda 0W20, that after the shearing you'll have six of one, a half dozen of the other.


Perhaps, as far as their kinematic 100C viscosities are concerned, but if both oils start out with the same HTHS vis of 2.6 cP, and I believe they do, then the Honda oil having sheared less will retain a higher HTHS vis and therefore a somewhat higher operational viscosity.

 

[sbergman27]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
IMO the specs of this oil are better than most 0W20 oils and...

Agreed. The specs that an inexpensive UOA will reveal look pretty good. But companies are tight-lipped about their formulations because presumably even fancy analyses like the kind that corps Shell can no doubt afford can't tell the whole story.

The proof is in the performance of the product. We tend to overestimate what we can tell from the limited data we have.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: sbergman27
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
IMO the specs of this oil are better than most 0W20 oils and...

Agreed. The specs that an inexpensive UOA will reveal look pretty good. But companies are tight-lipped about their formulations because presumably even fancy analyses like the kind that corps Shell can no doubt afford can't tell the whole story.

The proof is in the performance of the product. We tend to overestimate what we can tell from the limited data we have.


Yes and as with any product time will tell.

 

[river_rat]

Ya. It looks fairly robust for the VOA. IMO, definitely worth running a while - get some used oil analysis 'n stuff (for whatever they're worth) and see how it looks then.

 

[buster]

What are you guys paying for the Toyota 0w20?

 

[demarpaint]

Ebay is getting $60/case plus shipping, and no tax. That is about the best price I've seen. The dealers vary, but you can negotiate a bit on cases. None around here are willing to match the Ebay price, even when adding in the shipping to the cost of the oil.

 

[river_rat]

$6.85/qt.

 

[sbergman27]

I just called my local dealership, out of curiosity. And they quoted $6.75/qt. Not too bad considering what it is and that it's from the dealership. I was expecting more like $9-$12 a quart.

 

[Patman]

You guys should come up to Canada to buy it, it's only $5.65 a bottle up here, and a few have got it for even less ($4.49!) by buying in bulk.

 

[c3po]

Originally Posted By: Patman
You guys should come up to Canada to buy it, it's only $5.65 a bottle up here, and a few have got it for even less ($4.49!) by buying in bulk.


ROAD TRIP

 

[Bumpside 427]

Sorry kids, but I haggled here where I bought my Scion and got it for $60 for a case of 12 quarts. That's a nice $5/qt + tax.
If it gives a good UOA, it will be a nice deal. If not, not