Do you use them and do you notice a difference?
http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html
http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html
Top Tier Gasolines
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I've read about this as well and actually did run the Shell gas for a few months but didn't really notice anything myself. Its all really the cleaning agents inside the gasoline. My MPG was about the same in the TC, but its supposed to be better for the engine, easier on components and give you a hair better mpg.
My cars don't notice the difference between Top Tier gasoline and CostCo swill, but if there's no CostCo nearby I'll hit up Shell or Chevron for a tank.
From the Chevron website FAQ (I have read about this from independent sources also):
"When auto manufacturers design and build a new engine and emissions control system, they know they must prove to the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) that the car can go a long way and still operate with very low emissions. That's why all three major U.S. auto manufacturers use only Chevron gasoline with the Techron® additive to help their new engines pass the tough EPA 50,000 and 100,000 mile emission system durability tests. They buy and use only Chevron unleaded gasoline, even though they must purchase the Chevron unleaded gasoline in Kentucky and pay to truck it all the way to the Detroit area, because Chevron does not market gasoline anywhere near Michigan."
http://www.menlochevron.com/FAQ.htm
"When auto manufacturers design and build a new engine and emissions control system, they know they must prove to the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) that the car can go a long way and still operate with very low emissions. That's why all three major U.S. auto manufacturers use only Chevron gasoline with the Techron® additive to help their new engines pass the tough EPA 50,000 and 100,000 mile emission system durability tests. They buy and use only Chevron unleaded gasoline, even though they must purchase the Chevron unleaded gasoline in Kentucky and pay to truck it all the way to the Detroit area, because Chevron does not market gasoline anywhere near Michigan."
http://www.menlochevron.com/FAQ.htm
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I bought a container of 'Top Tier' fuel additive from Schaeffer's so I could doctor my own fuel. I normally use fuel from Kroger because of the discount and it isn't rated 'Top Tier'.
Amazingly, the treatment rate for the additive is 4000:1. This means I use about 1/2 oz. of additive to 15 gallons of fuel. It's incredibly diluted. At the moment I am running a Briggs and Stratton utility engine on a high doseage of the additive at a 1 oz. per gallon ratio (128:1). After I've run two complete gallons of gasoline through the engine I'm going to take the head off and valves out to see if it is any cleaner than when I started.
I use a graduated syringe to squirt the additive into my fuel tank at fill-up time. Since using it in my old 1997 Nissan truck I have noticed a smoother idle and quieter operation. I have not noticed any fuel economy increase after two tanks.
Amazingly, the treatment rate for the additive is 4000:1. This means I use about 1/2 oz. of additive to 15 gallons of fuel. It's incredibly diluted. At the moment I am running a Briggs and Stratton utility engine on a high doseage of the additive at a 1 oz. per gallon ratio (128:1). After I've run two complete gallons of gasoline through the engine I'm going to take the head off and valves out to see if it is any cleaner than when I started.
I use a graduated syringe to squirt the additive into my fuel tank at fill-up time. Since using it in my old 1997 Nissan truck I have noticed a smoother idle and quieter operation. I have not noticed any fuel economy increase after two tanks.
I use Valero Gasoline (Diamond Shamrock), Chevron, Texaco, Shell, and Exxon, whichever one is the cheapest. My mpg, here in Austin stop/go driving is above EPA Estimates, however, when I was using gasoline near sea-level, my mpg went from 24.5 mpg to 17 mpg, using Exxon gasoline. That happened when I drove my truck, but it also happened when I drove my car as well. To me, something about sea-level gasoline mixture is not good for mpg, that is my opinion. My 24.5 mpg is from changing from Various brands of Dino, and then synthetic blend Castrol to Mobil 1. I went from an average 22 mpg using the other oils, including Castrol Synthetic Blend, to 24.5 mpg and sometimes I get as high as 27.5 mpg using Mobil 1 since December, 2008, in my Nissan P/U.
I think that I am going to stay with synthetic oils from this point forward.
The only thing for sure that I will do, for my car, is use Motorcraft Synthetic Blend and other Motorcraft products as long as the car is under Ford Warranty. I got excellent gas mileage with Motorcraft oil, than what I get with Valvoline Premium Conventional 5w30. I have lost about 10% or more of my miles per gallon, since the Ford dealer put in Valvoline Premium Conventional 5w30. On the invoice it says Valvoline Synthetic Blend, but the Valvoline number states that it came from a 55 gallon barrel and is just Valvoline Premium Conventional dino oil.
Needless to say, however, I will be going to a Lincoln-Mercury Dealer near my home, where I will get Motorcraft Synthetic Blend Oil and Motorcraft Filter back into my Mustang.
I think that I am going to stay with synthetic oils from this point forward.
The only thing for sure that I will do, for my car, is use Motorcraft Synthetic Blend and other Motorcraft products as long as the car is under Ford Warranty. I got excellent gas mileage with Motorcraft oil, than what I get with Valvoline Premium Conventional 5w30. I have lost about 10% or more of my miles per gallon, since the Ford dealer put in Valvoline Premium Conventional 5w30. On the invoice it says Valvoline Synthetic Blend, but the Valvoline number states that it came from a 55 gallon barrel and is just Valvoline Premium Conventional dino oil.
Needless to say, however, I will be going to a Lincoln-Mercury Dealer near my home, where I will get Motorcraft Synthetic Blend Oil and Motorcraft Filter back into my Mustang.
My wife's 98 Monte Carlo w/3800 had an annoying problem with the throttle plate sticking while using Exxon (non-top tier) gasoline. After I started reading about "top tier" fuels, I switched to Phillips 66. Never had anymore problems with the sticky throttle plate. Our Phillips stations switched to Marathon (non-top tier) so I now use Shell with equally good results. I'm a believer of the top tier fuels!
Originally Posted By: Mustang2008Z
I use Valero Gasoline (Diamond Shamrock), Chevron, Texaco, Shell, and Exxon, whichever one is the cheapest.
When I make my twice per year trips to Texas I use Valero Gasoline. It works quite well in my cars and is usually a little cheaper than the others. Worked my way through high school at a Diamond Shamrock station in Oak Cliff (part of Dallas) back in the 60's.
I use Valero Gasoline (Diamond Shamrock), Chevron, Texaco, Shell, and Exxon, whichever one is the cheapest.
When I make my twice per year trips to Texas I use Valero Gasoline. It works quite well in my cars and is usually a little cheaper than the others. Worked my way through high school at a Diamond Shamrock station in Oak Cliff (part of Dallas) back in the 60's.
From BP's website: BP does not participate in the Top Tier program. BP believes that consumer interests are best served when the automotive and oil industries work cooperatively to determine the optimal mix of vehicle hardware and fuel standards. We believe our new gasoline offer is unique and all grades of BP gasoline with Invigorate exceed the Top Tier requirements with respect to detergent additive content.
I have always noticed 3 gas stations that add pep to my vehicles. Shell, Texaco, and BP. And, BP wasn't special to me until they started adding the Invigorate add pack. In my 4.6 HO or my 86 EFI 5.0, the 93 octane of all three brands gave noticeable performance, and that surprised me because they only needed 87, so normally 87 runs better, being leaner. But something about their add packs must help the fuel burn, because I know that Shell and BP advertise 5x required additives in the 93 octane, and Shell advertises 2x the required additives in the 87 and 89 octane.
But now, there are 2 BP stations closer to me, and every 3rd time or so, I'll dump some 93 octane in my truck and enjoy the smoother running. Sometimes it's all I run, depends how much money I have on me, lol.
I have always noticed 3 gas stations that add pep to my vehicles. Shell, Texaco, and BP. And, BP wasn't special to me until they started adding the Invigorate add pack. In my 4.6 HO or my 86 EFI 5.0, the 93 octane of all three brands gave noticeable performance, and that surprised me because they only needed 87, so normally 87 runs better, being leaner. But something about their add packs must help the fuel burn, because I know that Shell and BP advertise 5x required additives in the 93 octane, and Shell advertises 2x the required additives in the 87 and 89 octane.
But now, there are 2 BP stations closer to me, and every 3rd time or so, I'll dump some 93 octane in my truck and enjoy the smoother running. Sometimes it's all I run, depends how much money I have on me, lol.
I was surprised to learn that Citgo and BP were not on the list, although I'd use BP after reading the above post. My nearest Citgo station says something like "HTA 1000 Detergent" right on the pump for all three octane grades. My truck seems to run really well on it.
Personally, I believe that if BP's gas met Top Tier standards, they would be more than willing to get certified. The cost to doing so is ridiculously small for a company of their size. So, we are instead led to believe that they are staking out some moral, principled high ground (which seems laughable to me) with the following comment:
Quote:
BP believes that consumer interests are best served when the automotive and oil industries work cooperatively to determine the optimal mix of vehicle hardware and fuel standards. We believe our new gasoline offer is unique and all grades of BP gasoline with Invigorate exceed the Top Tier requirements with respect to detergent additive content.
In my opinion, they should quit saying they believe, and prove it. It isn't hard to do. Until they are certified Top Tier, then I can only safely assume that they do not qualify. Top Tier is an open standard, not some mystical guessing game or moving target.
-Bryan
Quote:
BP believes that consumer interests are best served when the automotive and oil industries work cooperatively to determine the optimal mix of vehicle hardware and fuel standards. We believe our new gasoline offer is unique and all grades of BP gasoline with Invigorate exceed the Top Tier requirements with respect to detergent additive content.
In my opinion, they should quit saying they believe, and prove it. It isn't hard to do. Until they are certified Top Tier, then I can only safely assume that they do not qualify. Top Tier is an open standard, not some mystical guessing game or moving target.
-Bryan
I was driving a new ford mustang, a rental in arizona.
The OEM gas cap says "ford recommends using BP fuel" with the BP logo on it.
So funny, they sold that right to the highest bidder.
The OEM gas cap says "ford recommends using BP fuel" with the BP logo on it.
So funny, they sold that right to the highest bidder.
Originally Posted By: Bryan K. Walton
Personally, I believe that if BP's gas met Top Tier standards, they would be more than willing to get certified. The cost to doing so is ridiculously small for a company of their size. So, we are instead led to believe that they are staking out some moral, principled high ground (which seems laughable to me) with the following comment:
Quote:
BP believes that consumer interests are best served when the automotive and oil industries work cooperatively to determine the optimal mix of vehicle hardware and fuel standards. We believe our new gasoline offer is unique and all grades of BP gasoline with Invigorate exceed the Top Tier requirements with respect to detergent additive content.
In my opinion, they should quit saying they believe, and prove it. It isn't hard to do. Until they are certified Top Tier, then I can only safely assume that they do not qualify. Top Tier is an open standard, not some mystical guessing game or moving target.
-Bryan
While Top Tier is primarily focused on detergents, it also has specs for volatility, etc. which is why some oil companies don't want to be tied down to the spec brew. It is adding one more layer to the already large myriad of EPA regional brews.
I like Top Tier, because if more companies did it, I wouldn't even think about buying fuel one place or another - which makes it less differentiating. There are no Top Tier brands around here, although Mobil supposedly has the Top Tier level additives, but not the other specs.
You will not notice a difference in driving on Top Tier for a long time, and if anything the car will just return to running like new, which is not immediately noticable.
Personally, I believe that if BP's gas met Top Tier standards, they would be more than willing to get certified. The cost to doing so is ridiculously small for a company of their size. So, we are instead led to believe that they are staking out some moral, principled high ground (which seems laughable to me) with the following comment:
Quote:
BP believes that consumer interests are best served when the automotive and oil industries work cooperatively to determine the optimal mix of vehicle hardware and fuel standards. We believe our new gasoline offer is unique and all grades of BP gasoline with Invigorate exceed the Top Tier requirements with respect to detergent additive content.
In my opinion, they should quit saying they believe, and prove it. It isn't hard to do. Until they are certified Top Tier, then I can only safely assume that they do not qualify. Top Tier is an open standard, not some mystical guessing game or moving target.
-Bryan
While Top Tier is primarily focused on detergents, it also has specs for volatility, etc. which is why some oil companies don't want to be tied down to the spec brew. It is adding one more layer to the already large myriad of EPA regional brews.
I like Top Tier, because if more companies did it, I wouldn't even think about buying fuel one place or another - which makes it less differentiating. There are no Top Tier brands around here, although Mobil supposedly has the Top Tier level additives, but not the other specs.
You will not notice a difference in driving on Top Tier for a long time, and if anything the car will just return to running like new, which is not immediately noticable.
Originally Posted By: Mark888
From the Chevron website FAQ (I have read about this from independent sources also):
"When auto manufacturers design and build a new engine and emissions control system, they know they must prove to the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) that the car can go a long way and still operate with very low emissions. That's why all three major U.S. auto manufacturers use only Chevron gasoline with the Techron® additive to help their new engines pass the tough EPA 50,000 and 100,000 mile emission system durability tests. They buy and use only Chevron unleaded gasoline, even though they must purchase the Chevron unleaded gasoline in Kentucky and pay to truck it all the way to the Detroit area, because Chevron does not market gasoline anywhere near Michigan."
http://www.menlochevron.com/FAQ.htm
yeah thats great,i have no chevron in my area.
From the Chevron website FAQ (I have read about this from independent sources also):
"When auto manufacturers design and build a new engine and emissions control system, they know they must prove to the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) that the car can go a long way and still operate with very low emissions. That's why all three major U.S. auto manufacturers use only Chevron gasoline with the Techron® additive to help their new engines pass the tough EPA 50,000 and 100,000 mile emission system durability tests. They buy and use only Chevron unleaded gasoline, even though they must purchase the Chevron unleaded gasoline in Kentucky and pay to truck it all the way to the Detroit area, because Chevron does not market gasoline anywhere near Michigan."
http://www.menlochevron.com/FAQ.htm
yeah thats great,i have no chevron in my area.
Originally Posted By: Johnny
Originally Posted By: Mustang2008Z
I use Valero Gasoline (Diamond Shamrock), Chevron, Texaco, Shell, and Exxon, whichever one is the cheapest.
When I make my twice per year trips to Texas I use Valero Gasoline. It works quite well in my cars and is usually a little cheaper than the others. Worked my way through high school at a Diamond Shamrock station in Oak Cliff (part of Dallas) back in the 60's.
hey johnny,i heard valero was garbage fuel??
Originally Posted By: Mustang2008Z
I use Valero Gasoline (Diamond Shamrock), Chevron, Texaco, Shell, and Exxon, whichever one is the cheapest.
When I make my twice per year trips to Texas I use Valero Gasoline. It works quite well in my cars and is usually a little cheaper than the others. Worked my way through high school at a Diamond Shamrock station in Oak Cliff (part of Dallas) back in the 60's.
hey johnny,i heard valero was garbage fuel??
I work as an Operations Supervisor in a large oil refinery that is located along the Houston Ship Channel. Our primary products are fuels, which include gasoline, diesel, aviation and heating oil.
When it comes to gasoline, our Blenders are provided with a specification that will be required for each batch. For example, winter blend gasoline requires a higher C4's content, which is essentially Butene/Butylene, to increase vapor pressure. Without the additional C4's vehicles would not operate well in areas with low ambient temperatures (aka up North). Long story short, gasoline is made to meet a prescribed specification.
Batches of gasoline are typically transported in pipelines, ultimately reaching loading terminals where tanker trucks are loaded for delivery to retail vendors (gas stations). The companies that own & operate the pipelines allow multiple refineries to contribute gasoline to batches for transport as long as each refinery's gasoline meets the required specifications for that particular batch. Long story short, gasoline made by Shell, Exxon-Mobil, Chevron-Texaco and other petroleum refiners may end up being transported in the same batch.
I assume that ethanol is added to gasoline at the loading terminal, but I am not 100% sure about that. I do know that each company's proprietary additive package is added at the loading terminal while tanker trucks are being loaded. I have always wondered about this, as there is really no way for "Joe Consumer" to know for certain that "X" gallons of additive have been added to "Y" gallons of gasoline. For example, Chevron simply claims that all grades of their gasoline contain Techron. They do not provide any meaningful way to quantify how much Techron is added though (i.e., contains .5% Techron).
As stated above, you really never know for certain who made the gasoline that ends up in your vehicle. I am fairly certain that I am getting Shell gasoline when I purchase locally, but only because of my close proximity to Shell's massive Deer Park Refining Complex. I don't know enough about additive packages to speak intelligently on the subject, but I think that they are simply designed to clean. I have heard and read that Shell's additive pack contains a UCL, which may explain why some folks see better fuel efficiency when using their gasoline.
I think that most folks erroneously attribute peaks and valleys in their fuel efficiency to branding. Perhaps there are more logical explanations for this, such as the accuracy of gas pump's metering system is off (intentionally or not), the transition between seasonal blends, varying quality from batch to batch or the age of gasoline. There are simply too many variables to definitively explain why some see better fuel efficiency when using a particular brand.
When it comes to gasoline, our Blenders are provided with a specification that will be required for each batch. For example, winter blend gasoline requires a higher C4's content, which is essentially Butene/Butylene, to increase vapor pressure. Without the additional C4's vehicles would not operate well in areas with low ambient temperatures (aka up North). Long story short, gasoline is made to meet a prescribed specification.
Batches of gasoline are typically transported in pipelines, ultimately reaching loading terminals where tanker trucks are loaded for delivery to retail vendors (gas stations). The companies that own & operate the pipelines allow multiple refineries to contribute gasoline to batches for transport as long as each refinery's gasoline meets the required specifications for that particular batch. Long story short, gasoline made by Shell, Exxon-Mobil, Chevron-Texaco and other petroleum refiners may end up being transported in the same batch.
I assume that ethanol is added to gasoline at the loading terminal, but I am not 100% sure about that. I do know that each company's proprietary additive package is added at the loading terminal while tanker trucks are being loaded. I have always wondered about this, as there is really no way for "Joe Consumer" to know for certain that "X" gallons of additive have been added to "Y" gallons of gasoline. For example, Chevron simply claims that all grades of their gasoline contain Techron. They do not provide any meaningful way to quantify how much Techron is added though (i.e., contains .5% Techron).
As stated above, you really never know for certain who made the gasoline that ends up in your vehicle. I am fairly certain that I am getting Shell gasoline when I purchase locally, but only because of my close proximity to Shell's massive Deer Park Refining Complex. I don't know enough about additive packages to speak intelligently on the subject, but I think that they are simply designed to clean. I have heard and read that Shell's additive pack contains a UCL, which may explain why some folks see better fuel efficiency when using their gasoline.
I think that most folks erroneously attribute peaks and valleys in their fuel efficiency to branding. Perhaps there are more logical explanations for this, such as the accuracy of gas pump's metering system is off (intentionally or not), the transition between seasonal blends, varying quality from batch to batch or the age of gasoline. There are simply too many variables to definitively explain why some see better fuel efficiency when using a particular brand.
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