Top Tier Gasoline?

[TrevorS]

Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Would you consider the fuel that Costco is selling under the "Clean Power" moniker if you're a member? We need to understand that "Top Tier" a marketing name and not the only means to achieve fuel system cleanliness. Chevron had been selling a more than adequate product for years marketed as "Chevron with Techron". Various fuel marketers have variously sold products like "Mobil Detergent Gasoline", "76 with ProPower/ProClean", "Shell VPower", etc.

The Costco product is very attractive because their prices are rock bottom, their employees are almost universally better trained/helpful than the cashier at your average gas station, their turnover is possibly the fastest in the industry, and because they assure the customer that it's about 5 times the minimum EPA required level when Top Tier is anywhere from 2 to 3 times.


Yes Costco with clean power is my #1 choice if I can get to it without a detour. It has the required detergency (I've read their ppt presentation), the turnover and quality control are probably the best out there, and for me its the cheapest.

The others you mention are all top tier so I use them based on price / convenience. If any other vendor could demonstrate they have the requires detergent then I would consider them too.

I make occasional exceptions due to price / convenience. My local Valero fuel seemed to increase power, is one of the cheapest and gives discounts for the touch less car wash.

But in general I try to fill with top tier and will do an annual treatment of Gumout with PEA.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Would you consider the fuel that Costco is selling under the "Clean Power" moniker if you're a member? We need to understand that "Top Tier" a marketing name and not the only means to achieve fuel system cleanliness. Chevron had been selling a more than adequate product for years marketed as "Chevron with Techron". Various fuel marketers have variously sold products like "Mobil Detergent Gasoline", "76 with ProPower/ProClean", "Shell VPower", etc.

The Costco product is very attractive because their prices are rock bottom, their employees are almost universally better trained/helpful than the cashier at your average gas station, their turnover is possibly the fastest in the industry, and because they assure the customer that it's about 5 times the minimum EPA required level when Top Tier is anywhere from 2 to 3 times.


Yes Costco with clean power is my #1 choice if I can get to it without a detour. It has the required detergency (I've read their ppt presentation), the turnover and quality control are probably the best out there, and for me its the cheapest.

The others you mention are all top tier so I use them based on price / convenience. If any other vendor could demonstrate they have the requires detergent then I would consider them too.

I make occasional exceptions due to price / convenience. My local Valero fuel seemed to increase power, is one of the cheapest and gives discounts for the touch less car wash.

But in general I try to fill with top tier and will do an annual treatment of Gumout with PEA.

There are several Valero stations around my commute that have the lowest prices. However, I have a 50 mile one-way freeway commute, so I don't necessarily have driving patterns that are tough on injectors or intake valves. Still - I'll fuel up at some station claiming to have higher detergent levels, and I figure I'm good. Toss in some Red Line SI-1 from time to time and I think I'm solid.

 

[nleksan]

All this has me wondering about whether or not I could just dose gasoline with somepure PEA and aachieve good results. I just checked and I can get it in bulk from one of our chemical supply companies, and doing the math it would cost about $0.18 a tank to add 5x as much as a bottle of SI-1 contains, to every tank fill.
...

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: nleksan
All this has me wondering about whether or not I could just dose gasoline with somepure PEA and aachieve good results. I just checked and I can get it in bulk from one of our chemical supply companies, and doing the math it would cost about $0.18 a tank to add 5x as much as a bottle of SI-1 contains, to every tank fill.
...

But are you sure you know what's the proper form of PEA? My understanding is that the bulk of PEA is used to make plastics and that not all is suitable as a detergent additive.

 

[TrevorS]

Since Costco, and a couple of other top tier stations I have located are no more expensive than anywhere else, I am not even thinking of adding PEA myself, whether from a retail bottle or elsewhere.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Since Costco, and a couple of other top tier stations I have located are no more expensive than anywhere else, I am not even thinking of adding PEA myself, whether from a retail bottle or elsewhere.

Yesterday I stopped by the Costco in Fremont, California to buy something. The gas prices were at the entrance. $3.659/gallon for premium (I drive a WRX). I did a double take since the Shell station a block away had a cash/debit price of $3.539/gallon for premium. The line at the Costco station was anywhere from 1 to 3 cars deep. There were cars at the Shell station, but I think I could have found a pump immediately if I'd needed gas.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: blackman777
Monitoring *radio* communications (cellphone) is not the same thing as startpage.com. Radio is ridiculously easy to intercept. Internet hardwires are not. In order to see what searches I made on a foreign website, the NSA would have to break into the building & steal the server. That isn't allowed under EU law and could be considered an act of war.

OT, but that is extremely simplified and generalized. Physical access to a building is not required in any way, shape, or form to get access to data stored or data traffic.

Unless, of course, all the security personnel and antivirus companies are in on the conspiracy. And yes, back in the day, the American and Soviet intelligence agencies planted physical bugs in each others' (and everyone else's) buildings, including embassies, act of war or not.

 

[TrevorS]

Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Yesterday I stopped by the Costco in Fremont, California to buy something. The gas prices were at the entrance. $3.659/gallon for premium (I drive a WRX). I did a double take since the Shell station a block away had a cash/debit price of $3.539/gallon for premium. The line at the Costco station was anywhere from 1 to 3 cars deep. There were cars at the Shell station, but I think I could have found a pump immediately if I'd needed gas.


Yes prices vary. In the Bay Area there are a couple of Costco's that are cheaper than Fremont. I use Gas Buddy to check.

A while back, when prices were higher, my local Shell, in a very upscale shopping area, with a huge amount of space and very little traffic, was the cheapest gas for miles around. They have a Chevron and Texaco nearby and all are very close in price to one another but it is the Chevron that is most popular.

Now, they are all 20c more expensive than elsewhere.

Another very convenient Chevron sometimes has ridiculously good prices for regular but not always.

That's why I like Costco. I can pretty much trust they have the lowest price for top tier without double checking.

 

[TrevorS]

And with 3% cashback, even your Fremont Costco price is the same as the Shell cash price.

 

[JavierG]

Originally Posted By: TrevorS
And with 3% cashback, even your Fremont Costco price is the same as the Shell cash price.

Is that only with AMEX? I don't have one. I'll stick with 76 or Shell.

 

[390pi]

Apparently, Ford and Mercedes don't find it necessary to use top tier(?)....

 

[mclasser]

Originally Posted By: 390pi
Apparently, Ford and Mercedes don't find it necessary to use top tier(?)....


I think a few years back, Ford recommended using BP gas and even had the BP logo stamped onto the gas caps of their cars. This was of course before BP became "Top Tier".

For Benz's, I would use NOTHING but high quality gas, i.e., no convenience store or Wally World stuff. When the fuel pump went out on my ML320 during a long trip through the southwest many years ago, the Benz tech told me how sensitive pumps on these cars were to gas quality. Several times during the trip, I had no choice but to fill up at local stations since there were no brand-name stations around. The turn around on the gas had to be high since all travelers on that route had no choice but to fill up at those stations. The tech told me the Germans in their ever-constant effort to make designs complicated should've stuck to the simpler fuel pump styles found on Asian cars.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: blackman777
Monitoring *radio* communications (cellphone) is not the same thing as startpage.com. Radio is ridiculously easy to intercept. Internet hardwires are not. In order to see what searches I made on a foreign website, the NSA would have to break into the building & steal the server. That isn't allowed under EU law and could be considered an act of war. (And even if the NSA did break-into Startpage foreign headquarters, the server stores no data.)


I could check your browsing history with my crude and novice "hacking" skills. I am certain if for some reason the NSA wanted to see what you are up to this could be done on a more detailed level.

 

[blackman777]

I added Shell yesterday. It cost $3.64/gallon versus the $3.49 of my usual station (US Gas) directly across the street. I couldn't find Top Tier marked anywhere, and the station guy had no clue. The 76 I drove past earlier had it right on their sign. It makes me wonder if Shell dropped the TTG certification?
Originally Posted By: TrevorS
I am not even thinking of adding PEA myself, whether from a retail bottle or elsewhere.

You on;y need PEA for the diesel cars, and only those with urea/soot regeneration (Chevy Cruze not VW Jetta/Gulf).

 

[TrevorS]

Originally Posted By: blackman777
You on;y need PEA for the diesel cars, and only those with urea/soot regeneration (Chevy Cruze not VW Jetta/Gulf).

Really? Where do you get your information from?

Techron PEA was lab and field tested on gasoline vehicles with measurements of deposits, cleanliness and performance. You can google for the actual published study.

BMW had an intake deposit issue which they tried all sorts of mechanical fixes for before settling on PEA in fuel (gas).

 

[MCompact]

BMW still recommends using a bottle of Techron every 3,000 miles if you aren't using Top Tier fuel.

 

[whip]

Originally Posted By: MCompact
BMW still recommends using a bottle of Techron every 3,000 miles if you aren't using Top Tier fuel.

What if I use fuel that has the same additive pack, but the retailer didn't pony up the money to use the logo? Is that inferior fuel? Should I still use the Techron?

 

[blackman777]

Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Originally Posted By: blackman777
You on;y need PEA for the diesel cars, and only those with urea/soot regeneration (Chevy Cruze not VW Jetta/Gulf).

Really? Where do you get your information from?

(whoosh). I even put a winking smiley!

 

[TrevorS]

Yeah but it looked like a mistype same as the one in the middle of on;y ......

 

[Bamaro]

Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: MCompact
BMW still recommends using a bottle of Techron every 3,000 miles if you aren't using Top Tier fuel.

What if I use fuel that has the same additive pack, but the retailer didn't pony up the money to use the logo? Is that inferior fuel? Should I still use the Techron?

Top Tier is simply a set of detergency standards. If any gas brand meets those standards it would obviously be fine.