Shell is TT. All octanes included. Don’t go chasing waterfalls, please stick to the rivers and streams that your used to.
So what’s considered top tier now?
- Thread starter NattyBoh
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Top Tier is to fuel what "certified Kosher" is to food. Just because there is no certification does not mean that the product is inferior. All it means is the marketer did not want to pay the licensing fee. Citgo and Sunoco are now on the list. They weren't always. BP and Irving used to be on the list. They are not now.
Does that mean bad gas got better, or good gas is now bad? I doubt it. I think it means that somebody made a marketing decision that it was worthwhile to pay the licensing fee, or that it was no longer worthwhile to pay the licensing fee.
That being said, as a personal practice, I usually pass up private label gas with no Top Tier certification for gasoline.
For diesel, no major brand has Top Tier certification. Does that mean all the major suppliers of diesel fuel have bad fuel? Of course not.
I think some suppliers pay the Top Tier licensing fee only to show the public their fuel is Kosher, where there is a doubt in the mind of the public.
Does that mean bad gas got better, or good gas is now bad? I doubt it. I think it means that somebody made a marketing decision that it was worthwhile to pay the licensing fee, or that it was no longer worthwhile to pay the licensing fee.
That being said, as a personal practice, I usually pass up private label gas with no Top Tier certification for gasoline.
For diesel, no major brand has Top Tier certification. Does that mean all the major suppliers of diesel fuel have bad fuel? Of course not.
I think some suppliers pay the Top Tier licensing fee only to show the public their fuel is Kosher, where there is a doubt in the mind of the public.
Shell stations have stickers on their pumps and all grades are top tier
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I've used BP for years with no issues. All of this is nothing but marketing garbage.
it's a mix of Marketing, and additives... in my area, all the fuel sold comes out of the refinery here in town...the oft repeated statistic is they produce 25% of the gas sold in the state of Ohio...
everyone in the area gets the same gas... just with different additives blended in...
I work at a Meijer Store, and in the past, filled in at the Gas station a lot....there were a couple years I was at the station more than i was back in my regular job....
I was there when we "became" Top Tier... we didn't change vendors for our fuel, they just changed the add pack the put in at the rack...
Meijer Decided that it was worth the Money to Join the Top Tier program, pay the licensing fees, and for the specific additive formula.
we knew the switch was coming, we were "going Top Tier" on a certain day... they didn't come in overnight and drain the tanks, and refill them with better fuel, they started a filling our tanks with TT Fuel a few days to a week before... then a couple weeks after the day we "went live" reps from TT came out, and applied the decals on our dispensers and some in store signage as to why Top Tier is better, with pictures of a dirty valve and a clean valve...
all that to say, all Top Tier is, is some Marketing to give your Customers a warm and fuzzy feeling, coupled with a specific High Detergent additive package that they mix with the local bulk Fuel...
everyone in the area gets the same gas... just with different additives blended in...
I work at a Meijer Store, and in the past, filled in at the Gas station a lot....there were a couple years I was at the station more than i was back in my regular job....
I was there when we "became" Top Tier... we didn't change vendors for our fuel, they just changed the add pack the put in at the rack...
Meijer Decided that it was worth the Money to Join the Top Tier program, pay the licensing fees, and for the specific additive formula.
we knew the switch was coming, we were "going Top Tier" on a certain day... they didn't come in overnight and drain the tanks, and refill them with better fuel, they started a filling our tanks with TT Fuel a few days to a week before... then a couple weeks after the day we "went live" reps from TT came out, and applied the decals on our dispensers and some in store signage as to why Top Tier is better, with pictures of a dirty valve and a clean valve...
all that to say, all Top Tier is, is some Marketing to give your Customers a warm and fuzzy feeling, coupled with a specific High Detergent additive package that they mix with the local bulk Fuel...
Some oil companies do have their own trucks and tankers, or at least they used to. I see fewer but many had their own fleets at one time.
I was under the impression that Costco gets non-additive fuel delivered, but I found that federal regulations require at least the "lowest additive concentration" of an EPA-certified detergent additive be in the tank once it's done being filled at the fuel depot. So what Costco adds is on top of what's required to be in the tanker heading for the Costco gas station. And the other thing I worry about with Costco is how well it's mixed when there's a delivery going on and customers are actively pumping gas coming from the same tanks that are being filled with the metered additive being added. It's probably not that big a deal, but I'm thinking it's probably not perfect. It would be perfectly blended (within a few minutes) if they shut down a tank or waited until they closed for any deliveries.
Mixing properly blended fuel in a tanker with properly blended fuel in the underground tank should result in the correct concentration of additive regardless of how well it's blended. But Costco has that variable of mixing in additive while it's being delivered and while customers are pumping.
There are no guarantees. All refineries have shutdowns and periodic shortages.
I live in an area where there are five major refineries although I think one has shifted to solely "renewable fuels".
But the way the industry mostly works is that commodity grade fuels are the overwhelming fuels made, but then distributed primarily by pipeline operators. And the irony is that they operate like banks where their obligation usually isn't to move a specific load of fuel to specific end users. It's to accept such and such grade of fuel at point A and provide the same grade to the contracted end users at points C/D/E. It's mostly a logistics exercise where their incentive is to minimize the actual amount of transportion. And it's always possible for commodity grade fuels from different refineries being mixed during storage and transportation.
Costco has the most unique system, which they called "Clean Power" over a decade ago. That's the one that's metered at delivery, although the delivered fuel should already have the EPA required minimum additive. They were advertising "Clean Power", but not all their gas stations had that equipment set up. But once every Costco gas station was set up with their system, the Top Tier signs went up and they changed the brand name to "Kirkland Signature Gasoline". They'd obviously come to a licensing agreement with Top Tier, but they didn't go "live" with it until every station was set up to dispense more additive.
Who is “the guy” responsible for adding the correct amount of COSTCO additive during delivery?
Is it That guy wandering around the gas pumps? Is he a PetroChemical Engineer? A chemist? A high school graduate? I wonder how idiot proof they have made the process as surely they have different volumes of fuel added to the tanks.
Is it That guy wandering around the gas pumps? Is he a PetroChemical Engineer? A chemist? A high school graduate? I wonder how idiot proof they have made the process as surely they have different volumes of fuel added to the tanks.
I would look for the sticker to be better informed about Top Tier status along with making sure they are listed on the Top Tier site...however a poster above listed his Costco did not display Top Tier stickers on their fuel pumps...Costco gas stations in my area of ChicagoLand DO have the Top Tier stickers/notice on their fuel pumps...
good luck with your choice
Bill
good luck with your choice
Bill
Love's, Pilot and Sheetz not on the list.
garageman402
$100 Site Donor 2024
A close look at the door on the tractor shows a contractor. That truck is not owned or operated by Chevron. You live in the Bay Area, the big Coke bottler in Benicia switched all their deliveries to Reyes, you see it clearly on the trucks. Same trucks, same Coke logo, but run (owned?) by Reyes. Coke is not liable for any driving incidents. FedEx home delivery same. Look at the ghost writing behind the door on FedEx home delivery vehicles, there's a contractor's name. I worked for ABF Freight & we brought some of the Pepsi trailers out here for delivery, but we were allowed to use them during transport. One of our drivers had that trailer & was dispatched to Coke in San Leandro...... OMG, fit hit the shan, someone called & said don't you EVER send a Pepsi trailer in here again!! LOL. Another freight company I worked for had trailers advertising other products, See's Candy & Good Guys. I'd drive up with a See's trailer & all the office girls wanted to know who was getting candy.... LOL. My point is the writing on the outside of the truck doesn't necessarily match what's inside the truck.Some oil companies do have their own trucks and tankers, or at least they used to. I see fewer but many had their own fleets at one time.
I can understand it has to meet minimum EPA, so Costco just has to add the package to elevate it to Top Tier. I'm thinking they have two tanks for either grade, so 4 total, & can switch between tanks. With the volume of gas they pump they almost have to do that. They don't sell "midgrade" as it's just 50/50 regular & premium. Next time you (or I) are in there we should look how many fill covers they have, lol
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They still have their own drivers. Ostensibly using their own equipment although I suppose it could be leased.
Class A Driver at Chevron
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The purpose of this job is to be responsible for driving a class A, semi-tractor pulling an 8,500-gallon fuel tanker trailer (transport) to customer locations, loading and unloading bulk fuels, and completing assigned paperwork. There is exposure to dust, fumes, and high noise levels. Required to drive occasionally in hazardous conditions, including adverse weather, tight quarters, and rough roads. Mandatory compliance with all DOT, HAZMAT, company policies, procedures, and practices.
I found closeups of their vehicles, which generally just had the location of the home base for each tractor. One I saw just said San Diego and had the DOT number (157539). But it might have been a while since they were actively used to transport fuels with that authorization.
I'm not sure exactly how Costco handles it. However, the most likely thing they do is have whatever generic additive is available at the rack, which is what most independent gas stations buy. I recall Valero used to do that before they went Top Tier. However, I remember seeing a presentation from Costco of one setup. It showed three main fuel tanks and a small tank just for the additive. It's my understanding that the Top Tier testing requires a specific concentration of the same additive specified in the test results. I'd think that mixing and matching different additives wouldn't be acceptable. In any case, Costco claims that it's about 5x the EPA minimum requirement, but they don't say it's just from the additive at the delivery or the total additive including the EPA minimum
A similar explanation can be applied to "Dexos" approved motor oils, and other certifications. Lots of excellent oils would pass the rigorous Dexos testing process, but someone decided it wasn't worth the cost to have the Dexos label on the product.
At the very least it meets a relatively high standard. Not carrying the label should guarantee the EPA minimum requirement but perhaps where the marketer might claim a higher standard than the minimum, like with BP or others that either opted out of Top Tier or where they never did to begin with.
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