IMHO, changing early isn't going to give any advantage for engine wear, even if it's sheared down a grade at 1200miles. It may restore some shift feel, that about it. Go ride and get you moneys worth out of the M1.
To Change oil or not
- Thread starter wileyE
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Your engine will be fine. Your transmission may not be as fine. I usually run Rotella or Delo 15-40 mineral oil a bit over 1000 miles before I can detect a change in shift quality. As soon as that change occurs, I change the oil. Shift quality has always been better after the change. Recently, I tried a mix of Rotella synthetic 5-40 and Rotella 15-40. Shift quality held up better, but, still, it didn't hold up much past 1500 miles. I drained 2 quarts of this mixture out (my bike holds 5.8 quarts) and replaced it with Rotella 15-40, and shifting is slightly better. I imagine this good shifting won't last long, and my next experiment is Amsoil's Motorcycle 10-40. BUT, I think I'm going to mix it half and half with Amsoil's 20-50.
To me, shared sump motorcycle oil is all about transmission protection, because the engine itself would probably be fine with a 30 weight! This is just my opinion, you need to ask someone that has actually worked on motorcycle transmissions to get an expert opinion.
To me, shared sump motorcycle oil is all about transmission protection, because the engine itself would probably be fine with a 30 weight! This is just my opinion, you need to ask someone that has actually worked on motorcycle transmissions to get an expert opinion.
I'm guessing the transmission would probably be fine also down at 30w. Just considering all the automotive gearboxes that spec'd atf or 10w30 for use (like my 3/4ton ford). Also 30w is about the same visc as 85w gear oil, without the EP additive. But a new 40 or 50 motoroil doesn't have the EP additive either?
I would leave the oil in there... UNLESS it's been in there since prior to last winter.
You don't mention whether the bikes are shared sump designs or not. You say V-Twin, which covers a lot of different bikes from different makers.
Since you're using 20W50, and considering a long ride... I'm guessing you have Harley Davidson Big Twins... the metric makers generally spec lighter oil.
So long as the oil didn't sit around in the sump all winter, it should be fine. And even then, it would probably be okay but the general rule of thumb is to switch out the oil seasonally.
I think you're on the right track when you consider going to dino oil and shorter OCI's. My own tests with Havoline 20W50 in the Harley Davidson Evolution engine in my Low Rider shows an unsurpassed level of protection from the relatively inexpensive car oil. Every 2000 to 2500 miles is a good oil change interval.
Dan
You don't mention whether the bikes are shared sump designs or not. You say V-Twin, which covers a lot of different bikes from different makers.
Since you're using 20W50, and considering a long ride... I'm guessing you have Harley Davidson Big Twins... the metric makers generally spec lighter oil.
So long as the oil didn't sit around in the sump all winter, it should be fine. And even then, it would probably be okay but the general rule of thumb is to switch out the oil seasonally.
I think you're on the right track when you consider going to dino oil and shorter OCI's. My own tests with Havoline 20W50 in the Harley Davidson Evolution engine in my Low Rider shows an unsurpassed level of protection from the relatively inexpensive car oil. Every 2000 to 2500 miles is a good oil change interval.
Dan
Have only 1,200 on Mobil 1 VTwin on our bikes.
Generally I change oil before every trip, going on
a 1,300 mile trip next weekl thinking about not changing this time
but given the extreme heat lately wondering if that would be prudent.
I beginning to feel if ones going do early OCI he/she might as well use Dino.
Any opinions?
Generally I change oil before every trip, going on
a 1,300 mile trip next weekl thinking about not changing this time
but given the extreme heat lately wondering if that would be prudent.
I beginning to feel if ones going do early OCI he/she might as well use Dino.
Any opinions?
wileyE makes a good point.
However, I think the light-weight gears found in motorcycles would be more prone to damage than the heavier-weight gears of autos.
Most bikes don't put out much power (standard Harley, for example...yet, they spec a heavier weight oil than 30 in the transmission, no?), so the light-weight motorcycle gears would probably be fine at 30 weight. However, my motorcycle is about 100 HP and up to 141 ft./lbs. of torque....that's getting on up there to be asking lighter weight gears to hold up. So, that's why I watch for shift quality so closely on a bike with a shared sump and specifying only a 40 weight.
However, I think the light-weight gears found in motorcycles would be more prone to damage than the heavier-weight gears of autos.
Most bikes don't put out much power (standard Harley, for example...yet, they spec a heavier weight oil than 30 in the transmission, no?), so the light-weight motorcycle gears would probably be fine at 30 weight. However, my motorcycle is about 100 HP and up to 141 ft./lbs. of torque....that's getting on up there to be asking lighter weight gears to hold up. So, that's why I watch for shift quality so closely on a bike with a shared sump and specifying only a 40 weight.
Good points Titan.
Lot of it has to do with how the actual gears are cut, tooth design, machining and metalurgy.
Harley's newer gears are very Japanese in design (if not made there), this is how they are getting away with 20w50 in the gearbox now.
A good topic might be what causes the change in shift feel? If it's viscosity then the shifting should be noticeably better for the 1st 20minutes of our ride, then get sort of funky later in the day. Or maybe reach a point in oil temp where it's best? Is it depeletion of additve? the UOA here don't really show any low levels? I dunno, new oil seems to cure it, any oil. The gears are constant mesh so all we're really feeling is the shift dogs and maybe the forks. Looking at the parts you wouldn't think it'd make much difference, but it seems too.
[ July 30, 2006, 01:25 PM: Message edited by: wileyE ]
Lot of it has to do with how the actual gears are cut, tooth design, machining and metalurgy.
Harley's newer gears are very Japanese in design (if not made there), this is how they are getting away with 20w50 in the gearbox now.
A good topic might be what causes the change in shift feel? If it's viscosity then the shifting should be noticeably better for the 1st 20minutes of our ride, then get sort of funky later in the day. Or maybe reach a point in oil temp where it's best? Is it depeletion of additve? the UOA here don't really show any low levels? I dunno, new oil seems to cure it, any oil. The gears are constant mesh so all we're really feeling is the shift dogs and maybe the forks. Looking at the parts you wouldn't think it'd make much difference, but it seems too.
[ July 30, 2006, 01:25 PM: Message edited by: wileyE ]
M1 Vtwin oil is incredible stuff. I say leave it in.
Chris
Chris
"A good topic might be what causes the change in shift feel? If it's viscosity then the shifting should be noticeably better for the 1st 20minutes of our ride, then get sort of funky later in the day. Or maybe reach a point in oil temp where it's best? Is it depeletion of additve? the UOA here don't really show any low levels? I dunno, new oil seems to cure it, any oil. The gears are constant mesh so all we're really feeling is the shift dogs and maybe the forks. Looking at the parts you wouldn't think it'd make much difference, but it seems too."
Wiley, good question. I hadn't really ever thought of that.
I wonder if it could have to do with a changing of the anti-foamant action. In other words, I wonder if the oil gets all "sudsy" when it gets worn.
Just supposin' out loud here.
Dan
Wiley, good question. I hadn't really ever thought of that.
I wonder if it could have to do with a changing of the anti-foamant action. In other words, I wonder if the oil gets all "sudsy" when it gets worn.
Just supposin' out loud here.
Dan
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