2013 FZ6R Oil, No VI correct?

I've decided to try a HDEO and move towards a mixed fleet oil for many of our vehicles.
I'm just not happy with all these boutique oils and partially used, open containers.
I mean, my bike uses 2.5 l of oil. From a standard 4 L bottle I then have 1.5 L left - to do what with exactly?
I'm looking at a local brand which is easy to get in 20 L drums:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/gulf-western-premium-gold-15w40.319565/

I'm interested in hearing what others are having sucess with?
 
kschachn said:
I don't see any way a 40-grade oil could qualify for a 10W winter rating without VM.
Click to expand...
They reckon the synthetic blend of PAO and Esters gives them the SAE 10W properties without any VII.
But this brand also doesn't worry about getting API certification either.
I don't know.
I do know my bike is notchy when cold, especially third gear.
I think it's a premium oil, just not for my bike.
 
OEM approved? The one actual approval that’s doesn’t appear to be an actual approval. That’s quite the list of suggestions.

Why anyone messes around with this kind of stuff is a bit beyond me.
 
LordNilesStandish said:
They reckon the synthetic blend of PAO and Esters gives them the SAE 10W properties without any VII.
But this brand also doesn't worry about getting API certification either.
I don't know.
I do know my bike is notchy when cold, especially third gear.
I think it's a premium oil, just not for my bike.
Click to expand...

An oil analysis will tell you what the properties of the oil are and what additives are in it. But it's understandable if you don't want to spend money to get an oil analysis done on oil you're not going to use.

Nothing wrong with a monograde if you're not doing starts in freezing temps. My 2014 FZ-09 spent the last 80K miles on Valvoline VR1 SAE 40 - a dead dino monograde non-motorcycle 'racing' oil. It's the best shifting oil I've ever used in this bike, and I've tried a good number of them. No clutch issues, no degradation in shift quality over the OCI, and used oil analyses showed zero shear (as you'd expect from a monograde) and plenty of TBN left for extending the interval if I wanted to.
During my last valve adjustment, I measured everything I could to see if there was any unusual/excessive wear. Nope, everything was in spec.

Your bike will like what it likes - find an oil that it likes and use it. Just be aware that sometimes oil formulations change.

P.S. Don't sweat the API certs too much - they're more important/relevant for modern cars/trucks than bikes. API has to keep revising the certs because the auto manufacturers are forced to constantly push boundaries to try to squeeze every last bit of life out of the dead-end internal combustion engine. Our 11 year old bikes have engines that haven't changed much from motorcycle engines of the 80's. So they couldn't care less about the latest API spec oil.
 
Last edited:
kschachn said:
OEM approved? The one actual approval that’s doesn’t appear to be an actual approval. That’s quite the list of suggestions.

Why anyone messes around with this kind of stuff is a bit beyond me.
Click to expand...
There is a Federal consumer law against false claims.
Basically you can claim something meets or exceeds X, and you better be able to back it up or you broke a Federal law and the company gets fined.
However I feel our local oil producers exploit this law to avoid for paying for independent testing and certification.
 
jeff78 said:
An oil analysis will tell you what the properties of the oil are and what additives are in it. But it's understandable if you don't want to spend money to get an oil analysis done on oil you're not going to use.

Nothing wrong with a monograde if you're not doing starts in freezing temps. My 2014 FZ-09 spent the last 80K miles on Valvoline VR1 SAE 40 - a dead dino monograde non-motorcycle 'racing' oil. It's the best shifting oil I've ever used in this bike, and I've tried a good number of them. No clutch issues, no degradation in shift quality over the OCI, and used oil analyses showed zero shear (as you'd expect from a monograde) and plenty of TBN left for extending the interval if I wanted to.
During my last valve adjustment, I measured everything I could to see if there was any unusual/excessive wear. Nope, everything was in spec.

Your bike will like what it likes - find an oil that it likes and use it. Just be aware that sometimes oil formulations change.
Click to expand...
It's just a fussy third gear.
 
jeff78 said:
An oil analysis will tell you what the properties of the oil are and what additives are in it. But it's understandable if you don't want to spend money to get an oil analysis done on oil you're not going to use.

Nothing wrong with a monograde if you're not doing starts in freezing temps. My 2014 FZ-09 spent the last 80K miles on Valvoline VR1 SAE 40 - a dead dino monograde non-motorcycle 'racing' oil. It's the best shifting oil I've ever used in this bike, and I've tried a good number of them. No clutch issues, no degradation in shift quality over the OCI, and used oil analyses showed zero shear (as you'd expect from a monograde) and plenty of TBN left for extending the interval if I wanted to.
During my last valve adjustment, I measured everything I could to see if there was any unusual/excessive wear. Nope, everything was in spec.

Your bike will like what it likes - find an oil that it likes and use it. Just be aware that sometimes oil formulations change.
Click to expand...
A UOA spectrographic analysis will tell you the concentration of elements from decomposed additives, not what additives are in it. You can make a guess or assumption from there but UOA do not show additives. It also will not show you whether the oil has a JASO license, or if it actually has a manufacturer approval or meets a certain specification.
 
LordNilesStandish said:
There is a Federal consumer law against false claims.
Basically you can claim something meets or exceeds X, and you better be able to back it up or you broke a Federal law and the company gets fined.
However I feel our local oil producers exploit this law to avoid for paying for independent testing and certification.
Click to expand...
They make the claim it meets OEM approvals but then the list doesn't say that it actually has them. Lots of companies make claims that subsequently don't stand up and then go out of business. Lots of them.

I guess I am just done with these unscrupulous blenders that intentionally obfuscate on their PDS. I do not know why people persist buying this stuff. There a few notorious ones that come up now and then and this one is right there with them.
 
kschachn said:
A UOA spectrographic analysis will tell you the concentration of elements from decomposed additives, not what additives are in it. You can make a guess or assumption from there but UOA do not show additives.
Click to expand...

How about a VOA? Does that show concentration of elements from decomposed additives (which doesn't make sense since the oil is unused), or are they doing the analysis differently with a virgin oil vs. used oil?


kschachn said:
It also will not show you whether the oil has a JASO license, or if it actually has a manufacturer approval or meets a certain specification.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. But motorcycle manufacturers don't have OEM specs like auto manufacturers do. There isn't a Yamaha 9476.03 oil specification that an oil blender can choose to meet (or not).
 
kschachn said:
They make the claim it meets OEM approvals but then the list doesn't say that it actually has them. Lots of companies make claims that subsequently don't stand up and then go out of business. Lots of them.

I guess I am just done with these unscrupulous blenders that intentionally obfuscate on their PDS. I do not know why people persist buying this stuff. There a few notorious ones that come up now and then and this one is right there with them.
Click to expand...
I don't like it either. And precisely why my more treasured vehicles get Castrol Edge.
But rest assured if the product didn't meet those specs then our Federal government would fine them.
We have very strong consumer laws which are enforced which makes for a different market.
The vitamin and supplement market has been the most interesting in this regard.
This particular manufacturer supplies the mining and civil industry. Those are some serious global players (BHP, Rio Tinto...).
So I'm not 100% happy about it but I'm wrapped up in the warm soft glow that daddy Government will let me continue my ignorance.
 
jeff78 said:
How about a VOA? Does that show concentration of elements from decomposed additives (which doesn't make sense since the oil is unused), or are they doing the analysis differently with a virgin oil vs. used oil?
Click to expand...
No what I meant is the spectrograph (usually an ICP machine) decomposes all compounds prior to analysis. A VOA and a UOA are the same from this standpoint. I used to run oil analysis in college, the plasma temperature in the spectrograph is very high and is designed to decompose all compounds, even highly stable ones.

If you want to know compounds you need a different method of analysis such as FTIR or gas chromatography. Emission spectrography is like a sledgehammer. You get the pieces but no real clue to what it looked like before, except for an educated guess. For example you can tell there was a molybdenum compound but you do not know which one.
 
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